In all fairness, it isn't Sabean's fault that we can't score runs. Sabean went out and signed what he could. Roberts, Molina, Klesko, Aurilia -- he brought in whoever wanted to come to SF.
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We still have several guys who are not playing up to par, or even close to it. If we are scoring 2 runs/game and everyone is hitting near their career average, then Sabean would be at fault. But that is not the case. Vizquel, Durham, Aurilia, Roberts, Bonds, Feliz. These guys are not hitting like they can.
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But I do like the challenge. He is sending a message to the guys to earn their paychecks. And kudos to him for making this whole Benitez debocle quick and decisive.

>If we are scoring 2 runs/game and everyone is hitting near their career average, then Sabean would be at fault. But that is not the case. Vizquel, Durham, Aurilia, Roberts, Bonds, Feliz. These guys are not hitting like they can.

The guys you mention here average 36.8 years old. If Sabean was banking on them hitting near their career averages at that age to produce runs, then how can you say it isn't his fault?

Excellent quote from Sabean; my sentiments exactly. And while I agree with BawLa that most of this is on the hitters themselves, I can't give Sabean a pass on his "we need guys to answer the bell" comment. Dude, you signed Durham, Bonds, and Klesko in one offseason... you can't really be shocked when these guys miss some games. I loved all three of those signings, but I didn't exactly pencil these guys in for 162 games each.

Feliz is definitely the next Whipping Boy.

Josh: that's exactly what I thought when I read that sabean comment.

I don't think Feliz will ever raise the public ire to the same degree. He's too nice. And too many fans see his home run totals and say, "He's not so bad."

The next whipping boy is Brian Sabean himself. Every year or two he goes on a verbal jihad ("I am not an idiot" etc), but this time it feels different.

"Ask the guys who aren't ready to answer the bell. ... We need guys on the field. As usual, we're not getting that."

Hey Brian, perhaps you aren't getting that because they are...you know...old.

You're right, Lefty. Pedro, for all his faults, doesn't rise to the level of Mandocrity.

I think most of us have been saying for quite some time that this team is going to be hitting-challenged. Apparently, at some point a week or two ago, we had outscored our fellow NLWesters - which prompted some to say that our hitting was just fine, thank you, and we needed to worry about our pitching. Well, I think reality is setting in now. And we do need another power hitter. Relying on an old Barry Bonds and a short Ray Durham to power your offense is extremely wishful thinking. It seems that Sabean attempted to throw money at several overhyped hitters this winter, with no success. Thank goodness.

Here's a novel thought: let's develop our own hitters. Come next Thursday, batter up, Brian!

Agree 100% with Sabean in the headlights -- and he sounds like he knows it too: "Ask the guys who aren't ready to answer the bell. ... We need guys on the field. As usual, we're not getting that." That sounds like Blownetiz blaming everybody else. The rest of this year could get ugly 'cause you can't trade the GM! Or can you...?

If Sabean is smart, he'll play it professionally ("everybody giving 100%" "not getting the breaks" etc), calm the waters, and continue the stealth rebuild. Then when he applies for a new job this winter, he can point to a real accomplishment.

>The guys you mention here average 36.8 years old. If Sabean was banking on them hitting near their career averages at that age to produce runs, then how can you say it isn't his fault?

They don't even have to hit near their career averages to score more than 2 or 3 runs a game. They just have to hit close to what they were hitting as late as last season. Vizquel and Durham are probably draining the offense the most, currently. If Vizquel could just get his BA and OBP up, he'd be the best second hitter option.

As it stands, I wouldn't be surprised if Winn bats second or third upon Roberts' return.

I like Sabean's challenge. If management isn't going to challenge it's employees (or in this case, players), than who will? I don't think he's placing the blame solely on the team, but a large chunk of it is on them. You hear players say it all the time: "we just didn't get our jobs done".
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>If Sabean is smart, he'll play it professionally ("everybody giving 100%" "not getting the breaks" etc), calm the waters, and continue the stealth rebuild.

Sabean is a really smart guy. He's probably one of the better GMs when it comes to being PC and not tipping your hand or showing too much emotion. If you read transcripts from any of his previous interviews, you'll instantly notice that Sabean has an uncanny way of ducking away from questions. I don't know who coined the acronym, but I saw it on OGC's website last year: SSA, Sabean Stock Answer.

Since Sabean hired these guys, he is certainly allowed to rip them when they don't produce. He's quite aware that he's the one who signed them. Of course, these guys all seem to have been his second choices -- remember that he was going hard after Matthews, Pierre, etc.

It was a horrible offseason to have to shop for hitting. I can't think of any of last year's free agent hitters who are making a difference. Too bad Sabean painted himself into that little corner!

Since it's unlikely Sabean will be back next year, all I ask is that he doesn't trade young good pitching in a desperate attempt to shore up the lineup. I don't mind going nowhere this season as long as we keep our pitching intact and draft some good hitters. If we have to have a fire sale of the veteran hitters in July, so be it -- get what you can and play some kids in 2008.

Yeah, this time does feel different, probably because of Magowan's lack of solid support for Sabean in spring training.

For anyone ranting about Sabean, I suggest you look at the rotation and give him a break. No GM gets everything perfect, you have to figure out your strengths first then build from there. We have an absolute jewel there, we need to give him enough rope to build upon that.

This reminds me of a couple of years ago, when the Giants were scuffling bad and fans were beating the war drums when things turned around due to the team getting back injured players key to the team's success.

Sure the offense is scuffling and sputtering: our leadoff guy is out (Roberts), our normal #2 hitter is hitting worse than Neifi(Vizquel), our #5 is out (Durham), and Feliz isn't having his first half surge that is bookended by a poor second half droop.

Look at how good the offense was at the start of May when Roberts was leading off and Durham was 5th. It's still early and things are magnified because of small samples. I think things will be different once we get Roberts back into the lineup. And we should get a bump up when Durham and Klesko returns to the lineup.

As far as trading options go, I'm thinking that if there is any trade by the Giants we will be seeing starting pitchers in the system getting traded for position help, corner IF.

Maybe Morgan Ensberg of the Astros? Edwin Encarnacion of the Reds? They are both in the doghouse deep with their manager. Ensberg I would give less, he's much older, Edwin's a young stud that's worth more.

Rangers? Tampa Bay? Both scuffling, needing pitching, they could blow off this season and look towards next year. They have a lot of position prospects or even established players available.

Hey, sfgfan, I trademarked that! :^D Wow, what a memory, I don't even remember that...

I couldn't have said it any better than sfgfan, so "what he said!"

I don't think Sabean's job is that far gone yet, I think there's still a good chance he's coming back next year.

The reality is nobody can develop a whole team from the farm system. Too many variables, too many eggs in the basket. The way Sabean is doing it, I'm convinced that it is a better way of doing the farm system.

Focus mainly on pitching, building to a critical mass of talent in that area where the talent starts overflowing and you are able to trade away good pitchers for the position players you need. Draft some position players when the pitching starts to pay off, but keep up drafting pitching.

Teams always need pitching and you can always use pitching, you have 11-13 spots devoted to it, and most pitchers can switch to relief when forced to.

Look at the Rangers, they developed a whole slew of 1Bs, Teixiera, Hafner, A-Gon, but they haven't really done much for them. If you develop another good starting pitcher, you stick him in the rotation if he's better, or you can trade him if not, or if he's good enough, you throw him in relief.

Plus, for the most part, do you rather a team sign free agent position players or free agent pitchers? I think position players are much less riskier, particularly if you can pick up the position player when he is under 30.

Personally, I've been wondering if Sabean was just making a show this past off-season of bidding for the "top" players, maybe even pushing up the bidding. None of them were really worth "winning", even Zito, at those prices.

So you show that you are a "playah", then next off-season, when we have a lot of contracts ending again, freeing up a lot of money, you have more street-cred now plus the money and maybe get a chance at the actual good players, particularly A-Rod, who could be a free agent, but there are other A-listers out there like Andruw Jones, though he's scuffling this season.

>Personally, I've been wondering if Sabean was just making a show this past off-season of bidding for the "top" players, maybe even pushing up the bidding. None of them were really worth "winning", even Zito, at those prices.

I've been thinking the exact same thing. Though he was playing so dangerously close to the fire with Pierre that Sabean is probably STILL scared of what could have been.

I liked their actions taken this past offseason. None of the contracts are detrimental to the team's future. I've argued time and again that with the staff the way it is, Zito's contract actually doesn't hurt. The rotation itself (including Morris AND Zito) will cost the team around the $30M mark for the next season (and maybe even the following).

That's pretty cheap for a rotation of that caliber. It'll also leave the remaining payroll for relief pitchers and bats. I've suggested somewhere (either here, OGC, or MCC) that if the Giants make a play for A-Rod, it doesn't rule out Bonds' return. They could surely afford both players next season, and still get others to surround them (and the rotation).

Why the 'whipping boy' always a Hispanic guy, Montanez,David Green, Marvin Benard, Benitez, Feliz, Felipe Alou, Felix Rodriguez, Juanito Lemaster etc?

>Why the 'whipping boy' always a Hispanic guy

you forgot Russ Davez. And Paco Pierzynski.

lo ciento, no recuerdo

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