When the Giants Come to Town, It's Bye-Bye Baby

08.22.2007
Lincecum Loses It

P.M. UPDATE

Lefty Rich Hill is on the mound for the Cubs tonight. Last night’s lineup of veterans did its job, so I see lots of them getting tonight off as a reward. Hm? You say they only scored one run? Ah, here’s the brilliance of it. Old-timers such as Klesko and Ray-Ray know that Tim Lincecum won’t grow up until he pitches his heart out and loses a few times. That’s how you become a major-league man. So they weren’t about to score lots of runs for him, no sir. That’s savvy veteranness in action.

Tonight’s lineup prediction

CF Davis
SS Vizquel
RF Winn
LF Bonds
C Molina
3B Feliz
1B Ortmeier
2B Frandsen
P Zito

******

I don’t think anyone can argue with Bochy’s move to leave Tim Lincecum in for the 9th inning last night. In case you missed it, Lincecum was cruising with a two-hitter through eight and fewer than 90 pitches to his account. It looked frightfully simple.

To start the 9th, though, the top of the Cubs’ order went double, double, single to tie the game, all early in the count, all hard-hit balls. Hennessey and Kline relieved and gave up four more runs. Game over.

Much of this morning’s press focuses on this being Lincecum’s first-ever appearance in the 9th inning of a big-league game. Now he knows — there is a difference.  The 9th inning requires more focus from a starter, who is likely running out of gas while the fans are screaming and the opponents are digging in their heels. Add to that an opponent fighting for a playoff spot, and the pressure grows.  

As painful as it was to lose, we’ll probably look back at last night’s game as a key in the education of young Lincecum. I didn’t see the inning, but after the game Bochy said Lincecum was getting his pitches up, a sign either of fatigue or too much adrenalin. I’ll guess the latter. Whatever the case, credit the Cubs: they hit balls hard when they had to. It’s a fun team to watch, and Derrek Lee is one of my favorite non-Giants. As I wrote last week, I’d love to see October baseball in Wrigley.

Obscured by the drama surrounding Lincecum were the four runs surrendered by the bullpen. Two of the big hits, singles by Floyd and Kendall, were routine grounders that found holes, nothing more, so I’m not too upset, but the inning underscores how bad Giants relievers have been this year at stranding inherited runners. I don’t know the percentage, but Jon Miller remarked last night that the Giants were well below league average.

It’s certainly something to think about this off-season. Pitchers with good stuff who don’t miss bats (Randy Messenger is a prime example) are of limited value when entering a game with runners on base. Here’s an interesting question that I’ll throw open for discussion: Would you rather have a bullpen full of high-strikeout, high-walk guys, or a pen full of guys who don’t get many Ks but also don’t give up many walks or home runs?



Also on the Network:



[August 22, 2007 2:47 PM]  |  link  |  reply
Kid Fu said

Can we blame the offense for not scoring more runs? I'm in the mood for some offense blaming. Who's with me?

[August 22, 2007 4:48 PM]  |  link  |  reply
Boof said

There is plenty of blame to spread around here. However, to answer the question, bullpen pitchers have to be able to get guys out, pure and simple. It doesn't matter how (K, GB, FO), just get them out! Guys who come in and give up walks & hits consistently will never be good relievers. The GIants have a full bullpen stocked with guys like these.

[August 22, 2007 4:53 PM]  |  link  |  reply
Lazlo said

Krukow said almost the exact same thing on KNBR this morning. Check it out:

http://media.knbr.com/knbr/krukow.mp3

[August 22, 2007 5:39 PM]  |  link  |  reply
ELM said

>>bullpen pitchers have to be able to get guys out, pure and simple. It doesn't matter how (K, GB, FO), just get them out!

It does matter. Tying run is on 3rd, one out, 9th inning. Do you want a ground ball pitcher or a strikeout guy? What about men on first and second?

The point is, very few relievers meet the Platonic ideal: high K, low BB, and keep the ball on the ground. So you have to make trade-offs. We'd all love a bullpen full of relievers who "just get guys out," but it's not as simple as that.

[August 22, 2007 5:39 PM]  |  link  |  reply
Anonymous said

Lefty, You need to watch the 9th before you comment.One pitch up and the others were right where Molina asked for them.

[August 22, 2007 5:41 PM]  |  link  |  reply
ELM said

BTW, I just listened to Krukow. He said Lincecum was too amped up, he overthrew, and he elevated his fastball. Bengie Molina apparently knew it was happening but he couldn't slow Lincecum down. Krukow said all young pitchers have to learn how to pitch with adrenaline surges, and the first few times they might not succeed. Classic Krukism: "Sometimes you gotta stick your finger in the fan."

[August 22, 2007 5:58 PM]  |  link  |  reply
Boof said

Obviously, a fireballer who is unhittable is the ideal for a relief pitcher. My point is that the Giants bullpen has a bunch of guys that can't get guys out in any manner. How many times have you seen the bullpen come into a close game this year and just gak it up? They have attained a high level of suckitude. I see people on these blogs pointing to the bullpen ERA and other periperals and try to make the point that the guys are servicable relievers. In fact, the only thing that matters with a reliever is how they handle inherited runners. Clearly, the Giants bullpen is at the bottom of the league in that category. Just ask Matt Cain.

[August 22, 2007 6:04 PM]  |  link  |  reply
ELM said

So the question remains. Who's better: a fireballer with high Ks but lots of BBs? (Let's call him Brian Wilson.) Or a low-K guy who doesn't walk many and keeps the ball on the ground? (Let's call him Brad Hennessey.)

[August 22, 2007 6:41 PM]  |  link  |  reply
Fwoty Oz said

I would propose that a K pitcher is almost always superior to a contact pitcher as a 1 inning reliever.

A contact pitcher can have his best stuff but still be nickel and dimed to death. A strikeout pitcher leaves much less to luck and I feel that more is determined by skill (at least over a small sample size like 1 inning).

To put the theory to life, I would much prefer Brian Wilson closing games to Brad Hennessey, but that doesn't reflect a distrust in Hennessey (I'm pretending last night never happened)

[August 22, 2007 6:49 PM]  |  link  |  reply
Boof said

I think the correct answer is (C) none of the above. We've had a fireballer that walked & balked lots of runners (Buttmando). We've also seen how effective Hennessey is. I say put them both in other roles and go outside the organization for a true closer.

[August 22, 2007 8:20 PM]  |  link  |  reply
ELM said

In terms of pitching well in high-leverage situations (ie, late and close or with runners on base), Hennessey is the 39th best reliever in the bigs this year. That's not elite, but it's better than Mariano Rivera, Bobby Jenks and Scott Linebrink. Jeremy Accardo is #33.

Here's the entire list.

[August 22, 2007 10:51 PM]  |  link  |  reply
Giantsrainman said

I think part of the problem is how the pitchers are used. It is true that most in the bullpen are bad with inherited runs so let's not use them so much with inherited runs. Let the reliever that starts the inning finish the inning. They all seem to be better getting out of their own jams then getting out of someone else's jams. The manager also needs to do a better job of knowing when to pull a starter at the beginning of an inning instead of in the middle of the next inning. If his thinking is that he is not going to let the starter pitch out of a jam if he gets in one then he needs to just go to the reliever at the beginning of the inning instead of in the middle.

[August 22, 2007 11:03 PM]  |  link  |  reply
barton said

A good bullpen has to be stocked with both types.

With runners on and no outs, it's real nice to have a ground ball pitcher who knows how to get the double play and who seldom gives up the long ball. But you also need a fireballer who can miss bats--especially as a closer.

In general, I'd say middle relief is a great spot to have contact pitchers; most of the really good closers have a high strikeout rate, which keeps teams from getting rallies started with a bunch of squirrelly hits.