When the Giants Come to Town, It's Bye-Bye Baby

08.18.2007
Post-Game 8/17: Barry to the Max

Giants 3, Marlins 0, Max Roach 83: Instead of catching the last three innings of tonight’s game, I put on a compilation of Max’s and grooved while cooking dinner. Earlier in the day, Elbo laid some of Sonny Rollins’ Saxophone Colossus on me — Max Roach on drums, something I never realized. “Why is trading fours such a joyful thing?” I asked Elbo. We mulled that one over for a while, then Elbo said: “It’s something jam bands never learn to do.”

PLODAG: Barry Zito for his best-pitched game of the year against a formidable young lineup, no less. I revise an earlier trade suggestion: I don’t think the Marlins would agree to trade Hanley Ramirez for Matt Cain straight up. Ramirez should get a few MVP votes this year and a lot more in the years to come.



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[August 20, 2007 2:02 AM]  |  link  |  reply
obsessivegiantscompulsive said

Best pitched game of the year? It might be his best pitched game of the millenium! :^)

I think trading Cain right now would be the equivalent of shifting around the deck chairs of the Titanic. I say we keep our pitching staff as is, unless we get an outrageous deal, and keep on building on our advantage, whether it's adding Misch, Sanchez, or whoever to the rotation, and Wilson or whoever to the bullpen.

It's not like Ramirez would make our team great immediately anyhow, though he would be a great addition if that were possible. We would still have holes in places.

[August 20, 2007 11:17 AM]  |  link  |  reply
Boof said

There is no way the Giants can improve themselves in the upcoming years unless they trade one of their young pitchers. It is clear that the first & best candidate would be Lowry. He's tied up for a few years at an affordable price, he is young, and he is lefthanded. All of these things should offset the fact that he is not as good as his record might indicate. If we could get, 1 or 2 solid prospects that are relatively close to being major league ready, the GIants should be jumping at the opportunity.

[August 20, 2007 3:21 PM]  |  link  |  reply
obsessivegiantscompulsive said

I would consider two solid prospects for Lowry to be an outrageous deal, as much as I like Lowry and think much of his abilities and performance, I am not sure others see him in the same light.

And I'm not saying never trade anyone, I'm just saying for this upcoming off-season, we only deal from strength, meaning we only do it if we get a great deal. Hopefully by the end of the 2008 season, a few more pitching prospects would have proven themselves ready for promotion, or even better, been promoted and are doing well, and we trade off the surplus in 2008 or the off-season after that.

Also, research by BP shows that success in the playoffs is tied to three factors: strikeout rate, great closer, and good defense.

So Lowry makes sense to trade for that reason - I never said not to trade Lowry, only to wait for a great deal - but not Cain or Lincecum, both of whom are big strikeout guys. Plus, Misch appears to be ready to take Lowry's place in the rotation and he has been striking out guys pretty well.

I see Cain, Lincecum, and Misch as our future top three, plus maybe Sanchez, and Brian Wilson as our elite closer.

Then we build a strong defense and get the offense good enough to win with our pitching and defense. That would give us our best chance of winning in the playoffs.

In addition, out of offensive stats that has a link to playoff success in BP's study, only stolen bases had any correlation. Thus building on speed appears to be the right path to take with the farm system.

[August 20, 2007 3:54 PM]  |  link  |  reply
BawLa said

OGC is right as usual. Our best bet for returning talent in a Lowry trade is to trade him to a team that has good prospects that are being blocked.

[August 20, 2007 5:31 PM]  |  link  |  reply
the gene hackman said

St Tropez. man, his kit sounds so killer on that track... it's like you're inside the drums.
and his playing is so lyrical. just incredible phrasing and tone.
RiP, Max, RiP.

[August 20, 2007 6:50 PM]  |  link  |  reply
ELM said

I'm not sure if you were saying this, ogc, but holding off on a trade because it wouldn't immediately fix the team doesn't make sense, in my view. It's going to be a process. The Giants need to trade young pitching because they can replace pitchers much more easily than they can find or home-grow young All-Star caliber position players.

Trading Lowry for grade-A talent is preferable, obviously, but I think any smart GM will be reluctant to give up too much given his declining K rates, his BB problems, and his recent elbow twinge. He will not continue to win like this with a 1/1 BB/K ratio and 1.5 baserunners per inning.

[August 20, 2007 7:01 PM]  |  link  |  reply
Boof said

The longer the Giants hold on to Lowry, the less they will get for him in return. He is not going to be part of the long term solution unles we can flip him for a solid YOUNG position player.

The Giants already have a number of young arms that can potentially fill his spot when the rebuilding process is almost complete in about 3 years.......assuming that they get rid of Sabean by next year.