When the Giants Come to Town, It's Bye-Bye Baby

11.09.2007
And Now, Third...

The Giants entered the off-season with major holes at four positions: shortstop, third base, first base and one outfield spot. The Giants made it official yesterday: Omar Vizquel is in the bag for one more year and potentially two. We know they'll get good defense (how good is arguable), a winning personality, and offense that could be as bad as last year (a .305 OBP and .621 OPS, his worst since 1993) or as good as 2006 (a .361 OBP and .750 OPS, one of his best years ever). Unlike some of the commenters earlier this week, I'm not ready to write off his bat completely; with a .350 OBP, he would still be a serviceable number-two batter. But we know he won't be a force.

I'll bet my sweet p'toot the Giants next turn their attention to third base. We all dread the announcement: Pedro Feliz, three years and $24 million! (Though yesterday Sabean said the team is not very interested in a multi-year deal.) What are the alternatives?

Internal: Kevin Frandsen. I believe he played third in college, though he hasn't much since turning pro. He doesn't have the ideal bat for third base, especially when your entire outfield is projected to hit negative 7 home runs. No one in the high minors is ready unless you count Justin Leone, a 30-year-old minor league journeyman who had a nice year at Fresno.

External via free agency: A-Rod is the elephant in the room. We can argue endlessly whether the Giants can afford to sign him, what their chances are, and whether it'll break their bank or bring them closer to playoff contention in 2009 or 2010. The other big name, Mike Lowell, seems eager to re-sign with Boston and vice versa.

External via trade: Miguel Cabrera is available for half the Giants pitching depth. According to this columnist, the Giants are a "major player" for him, which makes me kind of excited but kind of scared, like when I was 14 and I had good information that a certain girl I liked from afar wanted to go to the dance with me. I promise that's the only time I will link Brian Sabean and my puberty, metaphorically or otherwise.

Who else? Scott Rolen is probably available, but beat up and expensive. Garrett Atkins and Adrian Beltre are not available. Keith Law of ESPN runs down the list here. Among the veterans, it's not promising. Among other teams' prospects, there are a few blue-chippers who might be available, but not likely for anyone short of Cain or Lincecum. (Tim Lincecum for Alex Gordon? Anyone?) This isn't a novel suggestion, but Edwin Encarnacion of Cincinnati could be the tweener -- not quite a prospect, not quite a star, still quite affordable -- whom the Giants could pry loose without trading their young aces.

My suggestion: Go after a player like Encarnacion who won't require quite as much trade bait. If that doesn't pan out, start the spring with Frandsen at third and see how things transpire. There's no rush. Getting Cabrera would be a bold, risky move, and I don't think my nerves could handle it.


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[November 9, 2007 4:47 PM]  |  link  |  reply
bigO said

I thought I read (I'm not an "insider") that Keith Law said that Cabrera could be a headcase and his off field antics could be questionable. Also thought he said Beltre was available. Rolen is interesting but there's no way we would pick up the entire tab.

[November 9, 2007 5:50 PM]  |  link  |  reply
obsessivegiantscompulsive said

Only way I would take on Rolen is if they take on Durham, which I guess is appropriate since he's the Durham of 3B, plus they would have to throw in a hunk of change for 2009 and 2010, maybe $4M each year, then his salary would be $8M for us. I think that is fair, given the number of games he will probably miss, and the possibility that 2007 was his first decline year of the downsloping 30's for baseball players.

Only way we get Cabrera is if we trade either Cain or Lincecum, and I wouldn't do that unless we have Cabrera signed to a long-term contract as a condition of the trade.

Even then, I probably wouldn't do it. I think Lincecum is that good in tandem with Cain in our rotation. We lose a lot of competitive value by breaking up the two of them. Sure, we have some good pitching prospects coming up, but they won't be moving into the rotation anytime soon, and would leave the 2008 rotation as Cain, Zito, Lowry, Sanchez, Correia. Not too scary.

Lincecum is a player you base your future on, not trade away unless there is some hidden injury that you know will happen, so you get rid of him now.

[November 9, 2007 5:53 PM]  |  link  |  reply
obsessivegiantscompulsive said

I would be OK with Frandsen at 3B as I want to use 2008 as a "figure out what we got" season and not a "compete all out to win" season.

Lincecum is a big part of the core of our pitching staff for years to come, there is nothing to be gained by trading him unless the other team overpays and give us near-Lincecum plus a great bat.

[November 9, 2007 6:07 PM]  |  link  |  reply
bigO said

"Lincecum is a player you base your future on" . . . You should mean "a Lincecum type player." I don't think we should be BANKING on this guy soooOOOooo much.

[November 10, 2007 12:59 AM]  |  link  |  reply
Boof said

I really wish that I didn't have to see the words "Frandsen" and "3B" in the same sentence anymore. For what really should be the last time that this should have to be pointed out: FRANDSEN SHOULD PLAY 2B. PERIOD. EXCLMATION POINT.

Frandsen needs to be at 2B to see if he is the answer. Playing him anywhere else retards the decision making process. I don't give a damn how much Durham is being paid. Either sit him down or eat the contract. End of story.

[November 10, 2007 12:57 PM]  |  link  |  reply
trilljester said

I agree with Boof on this one. Leave Frandsen over at 2B and pursue a legit 3B. I don't want to see Pedro Feliz in a Giants uni ever again. His hacking at crap in the dirt days are done.

Cabrera would be nice, but yes, it's going to cost us to get him.

[November 10, 2007 2:14 PM]  |  link  |  reply
Frank said

I don't see the point in bringing in Rolen - too in jury prone, too much age. We already have that - Aurilia, with McClaine to back up if Richie goes on the DL. I do think it is imperative to trade Durham, but, if it came down to rolen or Sexson, would much rather see us get Sexson. I am not at all opposed to parading our minor leaguers thru 1b - Niekro, Ort, Ishi, McClain, etc, etc
I agree with Boof, Frandsen must play 2b all year so we can see if we have that position covered for '09.
I hate to pay a premium price for 3b on a guy, who while very young, has a weight problem and issues about dedication and attitude. That screams discount to me, not anchor to the teams future.

[November 11, 2007 1:41 AM]  |  link  |  reply
Frank said

I decided to take a look at AAA 3b men. I looked at about 80-85% of the teams, omitting the NL west, on the theory they likely wouldn't trade with us. It is a real eye opener. There is nothing out there (that assumes Longoira is not available as he will likely replace Cabrera).
The Giants have 31 y.o FA Justin Leone (269/383/498/880) and T De La Rosa, 30 y.o., (288/337/434/770). As I recall, neither player was brought up in Sept. so that tells you a lot.
The only team that really seems to have AAA 3bs is the LAA. Not only do they have Figgins and M Izturus, the have (who I believe to be the heir apparent) Brandon Wood 23 y.o, 835 AAA OPS (and 33 MLB ABs) and they have 25 y.o. Matthew Brown (867 OPS - + 5 MLB ABs). I would think one of these guys will be traded (if they get ARod), but they won't need the other, probably Brown. He seems, on the surface, to have more upside as well as recent performance, than virtually any other AAA prospect who may also be available.
After a quick look at some stats, Crede, looks like a reasonable, stop gap solution. He actually is slightly better defensively, than Feliz as well as slightly better offensively. Encarnacion has no defense, so I don't think Sabean would be interested. Some of the other names, bandied around, Loretta, for example, are so much worse than Feliz I can't see them being brought in even as stop gaps. One name that may make some sense is Glaus. OK defense and top 10 (or so) offense at the position BUT he only played 130 games last year, so there is big risk.
It is amazing how little is out there. Makes you really appreciate the coup that SD scored when they got Kouzmanoff so cheaply.

[November 11, 2007 10:53 AM]  |  link  |  reply
DC said

I also think Glaus would be an interesting pickup (we do need some power somewhere, even if we are rebuilding), but the Jays are going all in next year and will most likely not trade him. I think it would be smart to trade for a AAA prospect with power potential.

[November 11, 2007 1:00 PM]  |  link  |  reply
Cyrus said

Though my logic may come off as convoluted, I wouldn't trade Lincecum or Cain for a bat, even if it's Cabrera, unless it means acquiring 2 other high level bats. One power threat in the lineup is going to do little for the team, and the effect of removing either Cain or Lincecum the rotation will likely offset that power gain anyways.

This team needs a unit that will be stronger than most, if not all, teams that they face. For the Giants, the staring pitching is already close to that, and they don't need to acquire any players to improve it. It will just take time-- Cain, Correia, and Lincecum should only improve.

[November 11, 2007 11:20 PM]  |  link  |  reply
bigO said

Mets sign A-Rod and we trade for David Wright. What would you give up for him?

[November 12, 2007 12:50 AM]  |  link  |  reply
giantsrainman said

All the talk is that David Wright has agreed to change positions if the Mets decide to sign A-Rod. The Mets do have a hole at 2B.

[November 12, 2007 5:34 AM]  |  link  |  reply
SnowLeopard said

Leone = minor league free agent