When the Giants Come to Town, It's Bye-Bye Baby

11.20.2007
Move Big Mo'?

This item says the Giants are “looking to move” Bengie Molina. With Yorvit Torrealba nearly signing a 3 year, $14.4 million deal with the Mets, Bengie’s 3–year, $18 M deal doesn’t seem expensive at all.

So why shop him? First, he turns 34 next July. He had a decent year with the bat in 2007 and played in a career-high 134 games, but let’s see — mid-30s, check; kinda fat, check; can’t take days off as a DH, check; knees of a catcher, check — this is the template for sudden, rapid decline. 

Second, Guillermo Rodriguez and Eliezer Alfonzo are experienced enough to hold down the fort for a while. They wouldn’t combine for 19 home runs, but their OBP wouldn’t be much worse than Molina’s .298 last year. Defensively, they’re not exactly twinkletoes, but don’t let the big tube of veteran savvy unguent in his locker fool you — Molina wasn’t that good. He and MIguel Olivo of Florida led the league in passed balls, and he often seemed stiff behind the plate — just ask Jon Miller about Bengie’s problems catching high, wild fastballs.

There might be a dropoff if G-Rod/E-Alf were the platoon, but it wouldn’t be significant enough to doom the team anymore than it’s doomed already. And the gap in offense and defense could quickly close if Molina brought back a great hitting prospect and his salary went toward a more easily upgradable position.

My suggestion: Sell high on Molina. Thoughts? 
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[November 20, 2007 4:30 PM]  |  link  |  reply
trilljester said

Totally. Sell high if there's a taker. But, for some odd reason, Brian Sabean has no faith in young catchers. He wants that veteran catcher, and now that he has Molina, he's not going to give up on him easily, unless he gets something very nice in return.

Then again, if we go for Clement in Seattle, then that could be reason to shop Molina.

[November 20, 2007 4:54 PM]  |  link  |  reply
Lars said

Sell em if you got em...

I think the Giants should be open to any deal right now. If Brian can turn Molina into something young and eventually useful, then he has to make that move.

[November 20, 2007 5:31 PM]  |  link  |  reply
Ohan said

I like Molina, but if we're looking to build our team around speed and defense he's not helping.

Plus E-Alf and G-Rod got pop and heart. I enjoy watching them.

We've got some decent expendable pieces that are in high demand around the league.

SP: Lowry, Sanchez
C: Molina
OF: Winn

If Sabean can't make something happen, then we really know how much his GM skills have slid downhill.

I know this isn't gonna happen, but what do you guys think about this trade...

Linccumm
Molina
Winn

for

D. Wright

[November 20, 2007 7:07 PM]  |  link  |  reply
ELM said

Wright is 24 and already MVP material. I'd make that Wright trade in an instant, though I'd work hard to get at least a decent prospect back from NY as well.

[November 20, 2007 7:41 PM]  |  link  |  reply
bigO said

I'd happily get rid of Molina BUT realistically what could we expect (the GM's know all about his D and OBP). I would do the above trade for D. Wright in a heartbeat (trust me, I think we should move Lincecum now).

[November 20, 2007 9:04 PM]  |  link  |  reply
Boof said

Absolutely they should trade him. They shouldn't have signed him in the first place. However, it will all be forgotten if they can get a useful piece for him and his salary off the books.

[November 21, 2007 12:29 AM]  |  link  |  reply
obsessivegiantscompulsive said

The problem is not that Sabean has no faith in young catchers, it was that he had no young catchers good enough to have faith in.

People like to point at Yorvit, but offensively he's crap, his first good year was a fluke that fooled a lot of people and the thin air of Colorado helped him this year.

But I can point to catchers like Knoedler who the Giants aggressively brought up to the majors in the September call-ups, but then they never continued to develop enough to be a starter.

I like Lefty's reasoning here about the fall-off and probable uncompetitiveness of the team with or without Molina, so if we can get a good prospect for him by selling high, I'm definitely all for it.

[November 21, 2007 2:22 AM]  |  link  |  reply
obsessivegiantscompulsive said

Mets would never do that deal.

And trading Lincecum would set us back in the Giants efforts to win their next World Series. He is the key to moving forward, not whatever stud hitter we can get in return, he and Cain in a duo ace role in our rotation.

With Lincecum, we have something special in the rotation that most teams don't have. Even if we somehow pry Wright out of the Mets cold dead hands in a trade for Lincecum, he would not make our offense suddenly above average, and now our rotation is reduced to being OK, not something special.

[November 21, 2007 10:05 AM]  |  link  |  reply
Prospecthound said

I concur with the obsessive. Trading Molina isn't about trying to grab the shiniest jewel in someone else's box, it would be a deal for prospect(s). To a team without a starting catcher, Molina is actually worth a decent return- it isn't like there's any FAs ou there and the trade market is pretty weak at backstops right now too. Assuming Knoedler comes back, he is a 6 year you know, he would provide some defense depth behind A-R.

[November 21, 2007 11:38 AM]  |  link  |  reply
ELM said

>and trading Lincecum would set us back in the Giants efforts to win their next World Series.

We've come to an interesting philosophical divide. You think that a 24-year-old MVP quality third baseman is not as important to a team as a potentially top starting pitcher? A guy who hits four times every day versus a guy who pitches once every five days? I love Lincecum as much as anyone, but I just don't see how this is possible.

[November 21, 2007 11:54 AM]  |  link  |  reply
Boof said

I totally agree with you, ELM. The same thing could be said about Miguel Cabrera also. I would have no problem trading Lincecum or Cain in a deal that would net the Giants either one of these players. In Cabrera's case, it would have to be done with the proviso that the Giants get a negotiating window to sign Cabrera to a long term contract prior to concluding the trade.

[November 21, 2007 1:27 PM]  |  link  |  reply
ELM said

I'd target Wright over Cabrera. More cost control and better defense. By most metrics, Cabrera's D is atrocious. He'll be a first baseman by the time he signs his next contract.

[November 21, 2007 3:24 PM]  |  link  |  reply
Boof said

So........what's your point? It's not like the Giants have a stockpile of 1B candidates either. It's all about having a bat in the lineup with a potential HOF talent at the age of 24 to build a team around. 3B, 1B, LF....he'd be OK by me in the Giants lineup at any of those positions.

[November 23, 2007 6:08 PM]  |  link  |  reply
CTPinDC said

One thing not mentioned here - "veteran" catchers are often touted for their ability to work with the pitching staff to produce better pitching performances. With the youth of Cain and Lincecum, is there any value to the notion that they need someone behind the plate for "in-game coaching"?

I don't know how valid that claim about veteran catcher handling the staff is, but since I've seen it mentioned before, it bears discussion in the context of trading Molina. (If only to be refuted with, I don't know, actual data or somethin'.)

If it IS an issue, how much impact would losing Molina have on the continued development of Cain/Lincecum/Sanchez/et al.?