When the Giants Come to Town, It's Bye-Bye Baby

12.13.2007
354*

What? No! I’m shocked! Shocked!

Let’s discuss the Mitchell Report in this thread, non-tenders in the other. 

UPDATE: I’m reading through the report now. Download it here.

There is plenty in the report about the Giants, including a long description of Stan Conte’s attempts to warn Brian Sabean about Greg Anderson. Sabean’s response: if you don’t like it, Stan, do something about it. (I’m oversimplifying, but that’s the jist. It starts on page 122.)

The report seems to indicate what I’ve been guessing for a long time: Giants management at best had its collective head in the sand and at worst was actively complicit in covering up the drug activities of its players.

Here’s an interesting tidbit: in 1984 MLB and the players discussed drug testing. Two teams, the Dodgers and Giants, tried to write mandatory drug testing into the language of new player contracts. That halted negotiations toward a new collective bargaining agreement until the teams backed down.

Here’s a scout’s description of Eric Gagne, provided to Theo Epstein when Epstein was considering a trade last year:

Has had a checkered medical past throughout career including minor leagues. Lacks the poise and commitment to stay healthy, maintain body and re invent self. What made him a tenacious closer was the max effort plus stuff . . . Mentality without the plus weapons and without steroid help probably creates a large risk in bounce back durability and ability to throw average while allowing the changeup to play as it once did . . . Personally, durability (or lack of) will follow Gagne . . .
Also on the Network:



[December 13, 2007 12:25 PM]  |  link  |  reply
Jim E said

Better yet ... Hey Sox* fans, care to put an asterix on the two World Series*? Damon*, Varitek*, Nixon*?

[December 13, 2007 12:50 PM]  |  link  |  reply
Erin said

Still a speculative list at this point, but it seems like there may be a few asterisks on a few more teams than just the Red Sox. Not sure why you're singling them out, when the two confirmed names are members of the Yankees. And, I'm sure you'll remember, the Yankees won more than two World Series in the late '90s when those two guys were on the roster.

And, really, the whole list just seems to be based on hearsay, so how seriously are we supposed to take it just because it happens to be an "official" list of the rumors we've all heard for years?

[December 13, 2007 1:13 PM]  |  link  |  reply
jim e said

I single them out because for many eastern sportswriter types, The Sox represent the "right" kind of baseball story - comeback kids, gritty, ending the Ruth curse - while Barry Bonds represents the "wrong" kind of baseball story. Clemens is gravy, but was anyone really surprised by him being "juiced."

My personal favorite was Eric Gagne. What an obvious roid-head that dude was.

[December 13, 2007 1:13 PM]  |  link  |  reply
Jefferson said

Erin, you are far too rational and logical for the Internet.

I would add that the lists we've seen so far say nothing about when the alleged offenses occurred, or how credible the sources of the allegations are. It's certainly tempting for harried Giants fans to point fingers back and laugh at other fans, but I'd rather give folks the benefit of the doubt that we wanted ourselves.

[December 13, 2007 1:34 PM]  |  link  |  reply
jim e said

As a Giants fan, I personally never needed the benefit of the doubt (i accepted that B2 was using long ago), I just wanted an acknowledgement that even some of baseball's darlings used as well. As far as steriods, baseball fandom and management has hypocrisy issues. That such hypocrisy is exposed is a good thing.

[December 13, 2007 1:52 PM]  |  link  |  reply
Matt said

Umm, Mitchell works for the Red Sox. You really think he's going to name any valuable member of that organization? This entire thing is a joke. Of course the first two names leaked were Yankees.

[December 13, 2007 1:54 PM]  |  link  |  reply
bigO said

Oh the hypocracy if someone like Clemens get in to the HOF and BB is left out.

Also, I can't help but think 'bout how Senior Bud (simple minded me finds it funny that the comish's name is BUD) talked so highly of Clemens winning his 300th but Budngled (bungled)the Bond's pursuit.

Also feel that if the HOF showcases "the ball" with the * on it then they better get busy stamping lots of other stuff they have.

[December 13, 2007 3:04 PM]  |  link  |  reply
Boof said

How about these ex-Giants names on the list:

F.P. Santangelo
Glenallen Hill
Matt Herges

Any of these names surprise you?

[December 13, 2007 3:40 PM]  |  link  |  reply
Anonymous said

More Giants names:

David Bell
Mark Carreon
Jason Christiansen
Mike Stanton

OThers:

Rondell White
Lenny Dykstra (duh!)
Mo Vaughn
Kevin Brown
Denny Neagle
Ron Villone

and on, and on, and on...

[December 13, 2007 3:42 PM]  |  link  |  reply
F.U.-Jobu said

F.P. surprises me. He seems like a classy guy from what I've observed of him calling the Giants games.

[December 13, 2007 4:07 PM]  |  link  |  reply
bigO said

"He seems like a classy guy "

what's class got to do with it anyway?

[December 13, 2007 4:42 PM]  |  link  |  reply
F.U.-Jobu said

Oh, I don't know... maybe class should be associated with the players that had enough integrity to resist gaining an unfair advantage over their rival players by juicing.

Not all of the unnamed players fall into this category. Most probably didn't use because they feared what the effects would be on their body. But, what is certain is that all of the players that were named in the report do not fall into this category.

[December 13, 2007 5:10 PM]  |  link  |  reply
Jim E said

mea culpa on the original comment by me. I was relying on a leaked list that was false apparently. The Red Sox are still as pure as the driven snow.

[December 13, 2007 6:10 PM]  |  link  |  reply
ELM said

Come on, Jim, you should know that the Red Sox are a classy organization.

[December 13, 2007 6:48 PM]  |  link  |  reply
Jim E said

Just like the Pats.

[December 13, 2007 7:59 PM]  |  link  |  reply
bigO said

"Just like the Pats"

*16-0

[December 13, 2007 9:53 PM]  |  link  |  reply
johnP said

Surprised they left off Jason Schmidt...