Here's another Feliz quote that I liked. From Charlie Manuel, manager of the Phillies.
>> "He [Feliz] was called on to hit in the middle of the lineup in San Francisco. A couple years ago, he might’ve been pressing to do too much because they had Barry Bonds there.“
Barry Bonds makes other hitters worse by his mere presence?
How about this quote about Feliz by Tyler Walker: "He always came to the park with a smile on his face and never had a bad attitude. You couldn't tell if he went 0-for-4 or 4-for-4."
So that's been the problem all these years with Feliz, he didn't know that an 0-for-4 was different from a 4-for-4. If he had realized that, perhaps he might have hit better than he has.
Petro Fleas' vast majority of at-bats were in the 7th hole. I keep hearing Philly Phans talking about how he had pressure hitting in the middle of the lineup...or protecting Bonds (ha!)
"And while Philadelphia can be demanding of its pro athletes, Feliz has been in the supporting cast of the daily Barry Bonds drama in San Francisco for the past seven years. He even spent most of 2005 batting behind Bonds in the Giants lineup."
Bottom Line, last year Pedro Feliz was a 15 runs above average major league thirdbaseman when you combine defense and offense.
I think the odds strongly favor "Happy Pete" remaining overall above average for the length of his contract with the Phillies. This is a very good signing by the Phillies. This will make the Phillies more competative in their race for NL East Title with the Mets and Braves.
I didn't bother checking your provided stats, but Baseball Prospectus provides player info for free and according to them, he nets out to 0 (zero) runs above average, meaning he is an average player: http://www.baseballprospectus.com/dt/felizpe01.php
If you look over the data, it seems similar to what you note above. It has Feliz at -14 BRAA and 27 FRAR, which is very close to what you note above, but then his FRAA is 14 (because average is considered good in the majors, some use the concept of replacement level player to show how really good - i.e. marginally good - the player is).
BRAA + FRAA = 0 (zero)
So Feliz is an average 3b overall in his 32 years old season, not above average.
Plus, he's entering the danger zone for hitters - their mid-30's (Feliz will be 33 in 2008) - when their abilities fall off the cliff. Given that Feliz has not been that good offensively and matured later in career, those type of players tend to crack sooner as well, like Geronimo Berroa did when he was 33 and he had his first full season when he was 29, like Feliz did too.
But I still like the move from Phillies perspective, great glove and better offense from Feliz, it was win-win from their POV. And it was a great move for the Giants, we essentially got back our pick that we lost for Rowand.
A Feliz on the Giants would have been OK for a team trying to win (due solely to his glove), like he was for 2007 when they were trying to win, but on a team that's likely to be back of the pack in 2008 and with players they need to evaluate, keeping Feliz would have been counter-productive to the transition that Sabean has talked about. Still, if Feliz's feelings weren't hurt, he would be a Giants today with a two year contract, so I'm counting my blessings that he was insulted by the Giants offer.
I find it funny, though, that he was insulted the Giants offered him less than what he was expecting - he expected a raise - and yet he is all happy to join the Phillies at the same salary. Yeah, there was an extra year, but it's not guaranteed. If he only got two years, he would still have to play well enough to get a one year contract for the third year. The option just gives his ego a little psychic massage, but since the contract is exactly the same as the Giants offer, according to the latest news, the option year isn't even as valuable as the paper in my printer right now
The other plus for him, though, is shorter flights back home to Dominican and I assume the Phillies spring training is in Florida, not Arizona. Good for him, good for us.
Even BP admits that FRAA and RFAR are flawed old stats that just can not be relied upon like the more modern stats that TigerTales has averaged. Why don't you try reading and understanding the research that TigerTales has done before you just dismiss his work. I think you will conclude as I have that Pedro's exceptional defense makes him an above average thirdbaseman inspite of his below average offense.
None of these stats mean diddly squat. You can make statistics prove any point you want to make. As somone more inntelligent than myself once said, "There are lies, damned lies and statistics."
We all saw Feliz play and we know that he sucks. Pure and simple. Just wait till the Phillie fans start watching this guy flail away at that down and away breaking ball. The bloom will be off the rose pretty quick. All that being said, the Phillies do have enough offensive weapons to absorb a OBP black hole like Feliz. All I can say is I'm glad I won;t have to watch it day in and day out anymore.
Ignorance is blis especially when you have an emotional need for a whipping boy to hate.
Pedro will make the Phillies better inspite of you emotional inability to accept that his defensive positives are worth more then his offensive negatives.
Well, of course he is going to make them better. They were giving 250+ ABs to Abraham Nunez at that position. DUUHHH. They also played Greg Dobbs there, who might be defensively the equivalent of say.....you.
None of that makes Feliz a good player or a player that the Giants should be signing for 2 more years.
Clearly Ruben Amaro is a man that would know a fine hitter when he sees one. His career stats with the Phillies, Yankees and Angels from 1958-1969:
8 homers, 156 RBIs, career BA of .234 and career slugging of .292. I can see why this guy think Feliz will help.
I am going to miss Pedro being a Giant. He's gone, so there is no point in continuing to down him. Now would be a good time to start thinking of another whipping boy for the team. Ray Durham gets my vote.
The Phillies were one of only two teams in baseball last year that got twice as many errors (25) as homers (11) at third base. "He's a hell of a third baseman," one scout said of Feliz. "And he might hit 40 home runs in that park."
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Affeldt (4.5 M) Bumgarner Cain (4.5 M) Hinshaw Joaquin S. Johnson Lincecum (9 M) J. Martinez Medders (.85 M) Pucetas Romo Runzler J. Sanchez (2.1 M) H. Sosa B. Wilson (4.4 M) Zito (18.5 M)
CATCHERS
Molina (4.5 M)
Posey Whiteside
INFIELDERS
Burriss DeRosa (6 M) Downs Frandsen Gillaspie Huff (3 M) Ishikawa Pill Renteria (10 M) Rohlinger F. Sanchez (6 M) Sandoval Uribe (3.25 M) Velez
OUTFIELDERS
Bowker Ford Lewis Peguero Rowand (13.6 M) Schierholtz Torres
Here's another Feliz quote that I liked. From Charlie Manuel, manager of the Phillies.
>> "He [Feliz] was called on to hit in the middle of the lineup in San Francisco. A couple years ago, he might’ve been pressing to do too much because they had Barry Bonds there.“
Barry Bonds makes other hitters worse by his mere presence?
That's a good one. That's like Harold Reynolds complaining that Frank Thomas was overrated because he clogged up the bases.
How about this quote about Feliz by Tyler Walker: "He always came to the park with a smile on his face and never had a bad attitude. You couldn't tell if he went 0-for-4 or 4-for-4."
So that's been the problem all these years with Feliz, he didn't know that an 0-for-4 was different from a 4-for-4. If he had realized that, perhaps he might have hit better than he has.
Oh, and Lefty, he's also older than those guys too, he and Geoff Jenkins help balance those young whippersnapper hitters in the lineup.
Petro Fleas' vast majority of at-bats were in the 7th hole. I keep hearing Philly Phans talking about how he had pressure hitting in the middle of the lineup...or protecting Bonds (ha!)
I guess they never look at stats?
Here is a for instance:
"And while Philadelphia can be demanding of its pro athletes, Feliz has been in the supporting cast of the daily Barry Bonds drama in San Francisco for the past seven years. He even spent most of 2005 batting behind Bonds in the Giants lineup."
http://www.delawareonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080201/SPORTS01/802010356/1002/SPORTS
For the record, Bonds started a grand total of 13 games in 2005. I am sure it was a pressure packed 13 games though!
I thought I might just throw in a few facts to see they can calm down all of the "Happy Pete" bashing going on here.
Last year Pedro’s defense (ARS) saved 27 runs compared to an average defensive thirdbasemen.
http://detroittigertales.blogspot.com/2008/01/ranking-third-basemen-2007.html
Last year Pedro’s offense (BRAA) cost 12 runs compared to an average offensive thirdbasemen.
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=1112&position=3B
Bottom Line, last year Pedro Feliz was a 15 runs above average major league thirdbaseman when you combine defense and offense.
I think the odds strongly favor "Happy Pete" remaining overall above average for the length of his contract with the Phillies. This is a very good signing by the Phillies. This will make the Phillies more competative in their race for NL East Title with the Mets and Braves.
I didn't bother checking your provided stats, but Baseball Prospectus provides player info for free and according to them, he nets out to 0 (zero) runs above average, meaning he is an average player: http://www.baseballprospectus.com/dt/felizpe01.php
If you look over the data, it seems similar to what you note above. It has Feliz at -14 BRAA and 27 FRAR, which is very close to what you note above, but then his FRAA is 14 (because average is considered good in the majors, some use the concept of replacement level player to show how really good - i.e. marginally good - the player is).
BRAA + FRAA = 0 (zero)
So Feliz is an average 3b overall in his 32 years old season, not above average.
Plus, he's entering the danger zone for hitters - their mid-30's (Feliz will be 33 in 2008) - when their abilities fall off the cliff. Given that Feliz has not been that good offensively and matured later in career, those type of players tend to crack sooner as well, like Geronimo Berroa did when he was 33 and he had his first full season when he was 29, like Feliz did too.
But I still like the move from Phillies perspective, great glove and better offense from Feliz, it was win-win from their POV. And it was a great move for the Giants, we essentially got back our pick that we lost for Rowand.
A Feliz on the Giants would have been OK for a team trying to win (due solely to his glove), like he was for 2007 when they were trying to win, but on a team that's likely to be back of the pack in 2008 and with players they need to evaluate, keeping Feliz would have been counter-productive to the transition that Sabean has talked about. Still, if Feliz's feelings weren't hurt, he would be a Giants today with a two year contract, so I'm counting my blessings that he was insulted by the Giants offer.
I find it funny, though, that he was insulted the Giants offered him less than what he was expecting - he expected a raise - and yet he is all happy to join the Phillies at the same salary. Yeah, there was an extra year, but it's not guaranteed. If he only got two years, he would still have to play well enough to get a one year contract for the third year. The option just gives his ego a little psychic massage, but since the contract is exactly the same as the Giants offer, according to the latest news, the option year isn't even as valuable as the paper in my printer right now
The other plus for him, though, is shorter flights back home to Dominican and I assume the Phillies spring training is in Florida, not Arizona. Good for him, good for us.
Even BP admits that FRAA and RFAR are flawed old stats that just can not be relied upon like the more modern stats that TigerTales has averaged. Why don't you try reading and understanding the research that TigerTales has done before you just dismiss his work. I think you will conclude as I have that Pedro's exceptional defense makes him an above average thirdbaseman inspite of his below average offense.
And oh by the way, ARS is average runs saved using these matrics and it is relative to average not replacement.
None of these stats mean diddly squat. You can make statistics prove any point you want to make. As somone more inntelligent than myself once said, "There are lies, damned lies and statistics."
We all saw Feliz play and we know that he sucks. Pure and simple. Just wait till the Phillie fans start watching this guy flail away at that down and away breaking ball. The bloom will be off the rose pretty quick. All that being said, the Phillies do have enough offensive weapons to absorb a OBP black hole like Feliz. All I can say is I'm glad I won;t have to watch it day in and day out anymore.
Ignorance is blis especially when you have an emotional need for a whipping boy to hate.
Pedro will make the Phillies better inspite of you emotional inability to accept that his defensive positives are worth more then his offensive negatives.
It isn't just that he'll play great D. In that little tiny ball park he'll have a slg of 590
Well, of course he is going to make them better. They were giving 250+ ABs to Abraham Nunez at that position. DUUHHH. They also played Greg Dobbs there, who might be defensively the equivalent of say.....you.
None of that makes Feliz a good player or a player that the Giants should be signing for 2 more years.
Clearly Ruben Amaro is a man that would know a fine hitter when he sees one. His career stats with the Phillies, Yankees and Angels from 1958-1969:
8 homers, 156 RBIs, career BA of .234 and career slugging of .292. I can see why this guy think Feliz will help.
I am going to miss Pedro being a Giant. He's gone, so there is no point in continuing to down him. Now would be a good time to start thinking of another whipping boy for the team. Ray Durham gets my vote.
The Phillies were one of only two teams in baseball last year that got twice as many errors (25) as homers (11) at third base. "He's a hell of a third baseman," one scout said of Feliz. "And he might hit 40 home runs in that park."