When the Giants Come to Town, It's Bye-Bye Baby

04.08.2008
Boo? Who?

Much talk today about the unruly crowd at Opening Day, starting with the Barry Zito heckling in pre-game introductions.

I, too, reserve the right to boo my own team, though I exercise that right sparingly. Neifi Perez and Pedro Feliz got me cranked up a few times. Perhaps Marvin Benard after swinging through yet another eye-high fastball. I’ll boo a guy who is perfectly healthy but regularly refuses to hustle. Physical errors, no. Pitchers with control problems….depends on my frustration level.

At this point I have no reason to boo any Giant. Barry Zito’s rapid descent toward done-ness isn’t his fault, as far we know. Them’s that signed him, well, that’s a different story. If you hear me booing the Giants any time soon, the players won’t be my target. It’ll be the brass. Booooooo. Phthththtpppthththttt. Ya bums!

I’ll be judicious about that, too, but you can be sure P-Mags will be hearing from me through the U.S. Mail. (Stay tuned for more details.) When it comes to ballyard insults, call me old-school, but I still prefer to razz the opposing left fielder from my bleacher perch.

Is it worth booing the Giants this year? Which ones? Which past Giant was the target of your ire? Whatsa matter with Hairston? Discuss.

(Photo courtesy of flickr user meggerss.)
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[April 8, 2008 12:56 PM]  |  link  |  reply
Elbo said

I remember hooting Alex Sanchez off the field on his last night in French Vanilla. I believe he was charged with one error, and missed the cutoff man three times before Jason Ellison took his place.

Sanchez sure had a funny way of chasing fly balls. For a guy with that kind of foot speed, he was one terrible outfielder.

[April 8, 2008 1:01 PM]  |  link  |  reply
Brian said

I don't see why everyone gives Feliz so much crap, yeah so he couldn't hit an off-speed pitch so save his life or take a walk, but how many other Giants have played 3rd base, outfield and catcher in the same game? Feliz tried hard and played gold glove D at third when he got the chance. AJ Pierzynski, however, is very boo worthy, as is Ricky Ledee and Jose Cruz Jr.

[April 8, 2008 2:07 PM]  |  link  |  reply
ELM said

I booed Feliz not for his defense but for his soul-crushing lack of plate discipline. What made me blow my top were the times the opposing pitcher was having control problems and Feliz would still swing at balls out of the zone. Or worse, swing at the first pitch.

[April 8, 2008 3:09 PM]  |  link  |  reply
Jefferson said

Yeah, that got me thinking as well. I won't cut & paste the entire blog entry I made at my place this morning, but here's my horrible thought: Sabean opined for years that Giants fans wouldn't have the patience to undergo a rebuilding. Yesterday makes me wonder if he was right.

I've decided not to boo this year, unless a particular player goes Armando on us.

[April 8, 2008 5:15 PM]  |  link  |  reply
Johnny Disaster replied to Jefferson

I think there's an element of truth to that, especially regarding the more casual fans. Fans might be more forgiving, though, if the public communication from the team didn't seem like evasive bullshit. I guess the marketing guys didn't like 'We're rebuilding our team around fantastic young pitching and will be bad but improving for the next couple of years - look at our exciting youngsters!'.
At the same time, the Giants have not actually seemed to embrace rebuilding, in words or actions. Starting Roberts, Winn, Rowand, Aurilia, Vizquel and Durham is not the glowing sign of a team committed to rebuilding. And the gamer theme is not much of a public admission that the franchise needs to be retooled.
I also don't like to boo the hometown lads, unless they don't hustle or are a complete douche (see also Pierzinsky, A.J.).

[April 8, 2008 6:00 PM]  |  link  |  reply
Jefferson replied to Johnny Disaster

I agree that the team's marketing and communication this year is a joke, and I place that firmly on the back of Magowan and Baer. I hear reports about Sabean trying to ditch vets, even if he has to eat salaries; I see insulting "gamer" ads on my TV. That tells me all I need to know about who's up to what over there.

Now, Sabean dug his own hole here; no one wants Durham and Roberts and company, not even for peanuts. He's just not ready to sink those costs and cut them yet. I'm not sure he ever will, but I see the effort on his end. Bochy has a rep for playing vets unless they're taken away from him, so I can't lay that aspect all on Sabes...not yet.

[April 11, 2008 9:39 AM]  |  link  |  reply
natteringnabob replied to Jefferson

Also, some of our "young" guys aren't all that young. I'm glad they're getting a chance, but 27, in the scheme of things, is not so much young as it is "young-er".

Cain, Lincecum, Sanchez- that's young. Our minds have been warped by "kids" like Michael Tucker or Durham.

[April 8, 2008 5:01 PM]  |  link  |  reply
Frank said

Lefty, an entirely different question- I would be interested in your take on Bochy's leaving Cain in for 114 fairly stressful pitches in the first game of the season, then Cain's being exceedingly ineffective in his very next start.

[April 8, 2008 6:02 PM]  |  link  |  reply
Anonymous replied to Frank

I'd like to hear that too. From what I heard, the tiny strike zone might have rattled him, but I didn't see him pitch.

[April 8, 2008 5:03 PM]  |  link  |  reply
Frank said

As a corollary, given that the Giants are not WS bound in '08 would you advocate limiting Cain to 100-103 pitches in each start and Lincecum to 90-93? Or not?

[April 8, 2008 5:38 PM]  |  link  |  reply
Johnny Disaster replied to Frank

This is an honest question and not an attack, but can you point me to some scientistic (you know, at least quasi-rigorous) data or an article that addresses the 100 pitch limit? It seems more like an attractive round number rooted in our base10 math than something found in sports physiology.

[April 9, 2008 5:54 PM]  |  link  |  reply
ELM replied to Johnny Disaster

In an ideal world I'd love to see Cain and Lincecum limited to 90 or 100 pitches per outing. In the real world, sometimes a pitcher needs to go more. Did Cain's 114 pitches affect his outing Monday? Hard to say. The small strike zone seemed to affect him more. I think he admitted that in the big inning, he decided to let the Padres hit the ball. And oh, they did.

To the good, Bochy pulled Lincecum after 6 innings (~100 pitches) last night even though he might have been tempted to throw him for one more.

As for Johnny D's question about data that addresses the 100-pitch limit: BP's Pitcher Abuse Points uses 100 pitches as the threshold at which "abuse" is calculated. The formula "assigns 0 PAP to a start in which the pitcher throws 100 or fewer pitches and (PC-100)^3 PAP for all other starts."

[April 9, 2008 9:35 PM]  |  link  |  reply
Johnny Disaster replied to ELM

Thanks for the lead... the article here (from 1998) was very interesting:
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=148
There are several other articles regarding the PAP stat (Sadly, I mentally giggle at 'PAP stat'). But the upshot seems to be that they picked 100 because it's a round number that's usually in a part of the game where fatigue might be starting to take effect. But despite the arbitrary nature, it's still useful since they're doing a comparison. It seems like there's statistical evidence that >140 pitches = bad, but the charts seem less certain about the 100-120 pitch range.

[April 8, 2008 5:03 PM]  |  link  |  reply
ELM said

>unless a particular player goes Armando on us

Oh yeah, I forgot. I booed him.

Jefferson, you make a good point. We tiny sliver of rebuild advocates tend to lose touch with the unwashed masses, like the fat kid in the wire photo with the "Bring Back Barry" poster (and I don't think he meant the Barry Zito of 2002).

[April 11, 2008 9:40 AM]  |  link  |  reply
natteringnabob replied to ELM

Barry Williams?

Keep on, keep on, keep on, dancin' all through the night!