When the Giants Come to Town, It's Bye-Bye Baby

09.19.2008
D'Backs 3, Giants 2: Shoulda Been a Win

I gulped when I saw tonight's lineup:

Velez LF

My impure thoughts were a jinx. Velez's horrific misplay in the sixth on Upton's line drive scored two runs and cost the Giants the game. What's worse, one of the runners who scored reached because Rowand misplayed his fly ball. Both the misjudged balls were well-struck, but at-'ems are at-'ems. Outfielders, your first step is always back.

Every ball hit to Velez at second base makes me nervous, too. How much more on-the-job training will the Giants give this guy? Will his defense ever be adequate? Scratch that: If he can't hit better than his career .684 OPS, it won't matter. I'm very upset.

Who pisses you off more right now, Velez, Rowand, or Bruce Bochy for putting Velez in left field tonight? Discuss.
Also on the Network:



[September 19, 2008 12:40 AM]  |  link  |  reply
GiantsBigWig said

Bochy is the clear winner of the "idiot" award for the evening (season?). Velez should not have been put in LF for a start. He hasn't played there all season. He played a little bit of RF when he was called up for the first time in the spring, but barely any LF. Plus, he hasn't been in the outfield virtually at all since he was recalled for his second outing with the big league team, rather he has been at 2B. Velez' fielding has been okay/good at 2B since his recall, and his bat has been outstanding. I would argue that his overall low numbers for the season in the batter's box are a result of not getting consistent ABs. He was a pinch-hitter almost the whole season with an occasional spot start. It is hard to put up decent numbers under those conditions. Now that he has an everyday role he has been outstanding with the bat, which is more in-line with his career numbers. I think his fundamentals are poor right now, but he has amply proven himself against MLB pitching with the bat and merits very serious consideration as a starter at 2B next year. He had better spend the offseason working his rear off on the fundamentals though.

[September 19, 2008 1:23 PM]  |  link  |  reply
ELM replied to GiantsBigWig

>>I would argue that his overall low numbers for the season in the batter's box are a result of not getting consistent ABs.

Yeah, but Velez isn't going to be an everyday player. To play every day, especially at 2B, he needs glove skills. He's clearly a utility guy, and he needs to prove he can do well in that role.

[September 19, 2008 1:58 PM]  |  link  |  reply
GiantsBigWig replied to ELM

How do you know that Velez is not an everyday player? He seems to have the offensive skills to start. The defense is lacking, but that is easier to acquire than the offensive. Velez could very well be the starting 2B next season. I would be hesitant to pigeon hole him as a utility player only. Granted, he does need to work on his fundamentals.

[September 19, 2008 2:28 PM]  |  link  |  reply
ELM replied to GiantsBigWig

>>How do you know that Velez is not an everyday player?

I don't know for sure. But I do know his defense needs a ton of work, he's shown little sign of being an offensive force (which he would need to be to make up for his terrible D), and he's 26 years old. Sure, he could improve. But odds are against him improving across the board enough to be a helpful starting 2B next year.

[September 19, 2008 1:42 PM]  |  link  |  reply
obsessivegiantscompulsive replied to GiantsBigWig

As I noted previously to your assertion that Velez was wasted as a pinch hitter, Velez was given plenty of ABs in April, he was starting more often than sitting (19 starts, 27 games total, 90 PA, more than enough PA to get into a rhythm), and yet he couldn't hit at all, forcing the Giants to bench him, then send him down. Plus, he has actually hit better as a sub, .289 BA vs. .244 as a regular, though for less power, resuling in .630 OPS as sub, .677 OPS as starter, not much different.

And Velez played in the OF for a lot of games last season, so he should not be surprised to get starts in the OF.

He got plenty of chances earlier in the season, but he just blew them. Good for him that he is doing much better as a hitter right now.

But given his defensive adventures, he seems to profile best as a unconventional DH for an AL team plus could util across the field, so that gives him some trade value.

[September 19, 2008 2:07 PM]  |  link  |  reply
Anonymous replied to obsessivegiantscompulsive

Velez did look inept earlier this season, not so much with the bat, but with horrid defense and mental judgements. I think that his 19 starts in 27 games is still fairly sporadic (2/3) and not a sufficient sample. Moreover, he has obviously improved between now and then both offensively and defensively. Is he just playing over his head right now, or is this a new plateau? That remains to be seen. I still contend that he was mis-managed by the Giants this season, especially during the time in which Ochoa was given all of those ABs when he clearly didn't have the offensive where with all to make the grade. Although Velez has had some time in the OF, as you point out it was mostly LAST YEAR, he has had very little in LF versus RF and most of that experience was months ago. To make a snap judgment on a tough read line-drive requires an everyday sort of role. Velez only gets 10% of the blame in my book, Bochy gets 90%.

[September 19, 2008 2:08 PM]  |  link  |  reply
GiantsBigWig replied to

Sorry, forgot to post my name (GiantsBigWig) in the anonymous post above.

[September 19, 2008 3:54 AM]  |  link  |  reply
Ryan said

It has to go on Bochy. As the fellow above said, Velez hasn't played in the OF in quite a while, and from the looks of it, shouldn't play there. I still tense up when the ball is hit to 2nd base and he's there, but I have to admit that he hasn't been horrible there since his return to the team (a few gaffes, yes, but the sort you can live with).

I know Bochy was trying to get a right hander in there, and Roberts and Bowker can't hit lefties for anything, and Nate is apparently too injured to play. Still, Velez clearly isn't an OF.

Though that ball has to be caught, I'm not going to be too hard on Velez for it, and note--as Lincecum did postgame--that it is remarkable Upton hit that pitch that hard, and the ball clearly did carry. An MLB player has to make it, but I can sympathize: a swing like that, your instincts are to move in, and when you haven't played OF in a while, one's instincts are not properly conditioned by fundamentals.

[September 19, 2008 9:50 AM]  |  link  |  reply
Chris said

I think Boch was stuck in the classic manager mindset of "Matchups" on this one.

LHP on the hill and Roberts doesn't hit them at all, but Velez has never shown the ability (in either the minors or majors) to hit LHP.

I'll always take the guy with the stronger defense. That would have been Roberts in LF.

[September 19, 2008 12:05 PM]  |  link  |  reply
delorean said

Who pisses you off more right now, Velez, Rowand, or Bruce Bochy for putting Velez in left field tonight?

Velez sucks, but he never should have had the opportunity to blow that play.

Rowand sucks and should have known better.

Bochy wins the suck-off for not starting Roberts in left.

[September 19, 2008 12:45 PM]  |  link  |  reply
Johnny Disaster said

Velez is horrible defensively - but them's the breaks when you go with the youth movement. Butchery on the field is the price of knowledge.
Errant Throwin's (who made that up?? love it) lack of defensive polish is simply shocking to me - it hurts more because I *expect* Velez to suck but Rowand was touted as a good fielder.
But I thought Bochy's biggest flub was leaving Tim in to pitch the eighth - exposing him to the loss. Normally, I'm on the leave him in side... but listening on the radio, it didn't seem he had his dominant stuff (he was merely good). Pulling him with the game tied and having allowed only two runs (which clearly were the fault of the defense) would have given him the most juice in the CY Young race... giving up the winning run on legitimate hits, not so much.