When the Giants Come to Town, It's Bye-Bye Baby

09.08.2008
Admit It, You Love Jeff Kent

Quick notes on this busy day:

* The Merc's Baggarly crunches numbers on his blog and shows that Conor Gillaspie will earn a pro-rated major-league salary for his September callup -- about $66,000, on top of his nearly $1 million signing bonus. It adds fuel to the theory that Gillaspie's call-up was more about a negotiating promise than talent evaluation, especially since Bruce Bochy doesn't seem inclined to play Gillaspie, as Baggs reports: "Gillaspie is available to pinch-hit, but Bochy said he doesn’t plan to give him a start anytime soon."

* The addition of Gillaspie to the 40-man roster sparked an argument in the comments about the roster rules, but here's the bottom line: it gives the Giants less flexibility and puts a player on the roster who doesn't need to be there just yet. The good news is plenty of spots will open this winter: Vizquel and Matt Palmer are gone; McClain, too, and perhaps Aurilia; one of the two scrub catchers; and perhaps several of the following pitchers: Hennessey, Misch, Walker, Espineli, Correia and Taschner. Both Correia and Hennessey are due arbitration hearings this winter. I can't imagine both in Giants uniforms next spring. That's at least six, counting conservatively. One could also argue for the removal of Bocock and project either Winn or Roberts being traded. Does anyone know how many 40-man spots a team typically turns over in the winter? 

* Joe Crede is getting epidural injections for his bad back, according to BP's Will Carroll. If he wasn't the biggest caveat emptor on the upcoming free agent market, he is now.

* Jeff Kent will almost certainly retire at the end of the year. And he''ll almost certainly be a Hall of Famer in five years. Question of the day: Should he go into the Hall with a Giants hat? No matter how much you hate him, is there any other choice?



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I don't think that Kent will be considered a slam-dunk Hall of Famer outside California, but I think he should be in. His heyday was in a French vanilla uniform, so I expect he'll sport a Giants cap.

For what it's worth, I still really like the guy, and consider him a great Giant. It'll be good to see him back for reunions and stuff.

Jeff Kent was a great Giant and we have still have not come close to replacing his bat. That being said, there is no player I boo louder at Willie Mays Field.

He's a lock, and he'll be wearing the orange and black.

I fail to see how anyone can even consider Jeff Kent for the Hall of Fame without an automatic induction for Barry Bonds. I know, Kent's numbers have held up pretty well without Bonds, but it was play next to Bonds in the batting order that allowed him to compile numbers to even start the conversation. Oh, Bonds cheated and Kent didn't? Really, sure about that? On what basis? I know this wasn't the question, so to answer, it probably should be as a Giant, but wouldn't be surprised if he picked the Astros.

I don't believe players get to pick any more.. The Hall decides which hat they wear on the plaque.

according to this source:

"...in light of rumors that teams were offering number retirement, money or organizational jobs in exchange for the cap designation, the Hall decided to change the policy. Although the decision-making process would be a mutual responsibility, the Hall, not the players, would have the final say in such matters. Gary Carter, inducted in 2003, was the first to test this policy; he won his only championship with the 1986 New York Mets, and wanted his induction plaque to depict him wearing a Mets cap, even though he had spent more than twice as much time with the Montreal Expos (twelve years as opposed to five with the Mets). The Hall of Fame decided that his plaque would instead show Carter with an Expos cap. Wade Boggs was in a similar situation for his 2005 induction; he won his only championship as a member of the 1996 New York Yankees, but posted his best career numbers in more than twice as much time while wearing the Boston Red Sox uniform (eleven years as opposed to five with the Yankees). He went in wearing the "B" on his cap despite his acrimonious relationship with Red Sox management. Catfish Hunter, though harboring no ill will towards either of his employers (the Oakland Athletics and New York Yankees) could not decide which cap he preferred; he was a successful pitcher with both teams. He instead went in wearing a cap without a logo."

How can Kent not be a slam-dunk pick for the HOF? I don't have time to check the numbers, but it's safe to say he's one of the top 10 second basemen (on offense) in major league history. Morgan, Sandberg, Wagner, Alomar, Gehringer....

By this measurement, he's in the top 100 hitters of all time.

I got to go the Giants Dodgers game on the 4th of July and these guys in my sections were selling F*ck Jeff Kent shirts. If the ballpark security didn't make them take them off I probably would have bought one. I think Jeff Kent is worthless and I even went so far as to name my fantasy team after him..."Jeff Kunt." Jeff Kent probably does deserve to be in the hall of fame, and don't get me wrong I was right along with everyone else cheering him on when Barry Bonds protected him and forced pitchers to pitch to him, but I still hope he doesn't go in the hall as a Giant. How big of a hypocrite will all of us look like cheering him on at AT&T when he gets inducted when all of us booed the hell out of him for four years in LA?

Kent is a lock for the Hall of Fame, no doubt. He should go in as a Giant as he achieved his greatest success (MVP, beating out Bonds) here.

Kent is far from a lock.

For one, his numbers are inflated by the era he played in, which one well-known analyst (the guy who taught the A's all their stuff, Eric Walker) has dubbed Silly-Ball and which still exists today (I checked with him via e-mail and while he hasn't updated his Boskage website for recent years, he told me that the effect is still in effect, steroids testing or no steroids testing). He seems to believe that the MLB changed the ball to win back fans with more homers.

Kent's also had relatively short career success (10 years approximately) and while he is in the Top 100 in a number of categories, I offer this example of a player who had relatively short career success (about 10 years) and was in the Top 100 in most major offensive categories himself when he retired: Bobby Bonds.

The main plus for Kent over Bonds in this comparison is that he played a premium defensive position; however, nobody has ever considered Kent to be a premium fielder.

In addition, the voters have been relatively tough in inducting 2B into the Hall, probably because of the lower offensive hurdle there to start.

I also think that his "car washing" lie will also hurt him with some voters, as that will be all they remember about him.

If he should make it in, I'll bet that he will make a push for another team's logo but the Hall would do the right thing and put SF on his cap. That was when he was MVP after all.

I would enjoy that because while I hate his guts now, due to all the insults he has hurled on SF Bay Area fans since leaving, I feel that having SF burned on his forehead forever would bother him, and for that I would smile.

Martin, how about a friendly wager, if we're both still around in 2013: ten bucks says Kent is elected his first year of eligibility.

I'll also take a bet on that!

Kent is a lock. Book it!

About Gillaspie, I'll save my bitching and moaning should the Giants drop anyone off the roster who I wanted them to keep. As ELM showed, there should be a lot of spots available, plus, who would the Giants feel the need to add right now anyway?

Maybe Jesse English, EME, Adam Witter, Joe Martinez, Justin Hedrick, Nick Pereira.

Timpner is probably droppable too, if not already.

I don't have any stats, but I would guess turnover of around 5 per off-season.

If Bobby Grich can't get in, it's possible that Kent won't, although Kent put up gaudier RBI numbers and voters tend to weight that heavier.

He squeaks by in a couple of the BB-REF HoF standards. That doesn't mean he'll get in, but it's food for thought.

Gray Ink: Batting - 71 (336) (Average HOFer ≈ 144)
HOF Standards: Batting - 50.9 (73) (Average HOFer ≈ 50)
HOF Monitor: Batting - 122.5 (110) (Likely HOFer > 100)

I think he'll get in but I also think Roberto Alomar should be in the HoF, so what do I know.

Roberto Alomar retired after the 2004 season, so he's not yet eligible. He also retired at the age of 36 and has his last good season at the age of 33. I didn't realize he fell off the cliff so quickly.

I truly believe he may have been the greatest second basemen to play the game. He lost 4 years in a bab Met organiztion. Alltime 21st doubles ,33 xbh, 62 hrs,.290 lifetime 49 rbis plus better fielding % than half 2nd basemen in HOF. Played in tough ballparks except Astros so his power numbers are very legit. 700 chances plus and only 10 errors is way up there. A true lock.

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