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When the Giants Come to Town, It's Bye-Bye Baby | |
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When the Giants Come to Town, It's Bye-Bye Baby | |
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Giants 40-Man Roster
(w/2010 Salary, if known) PITCHERS
Affeldt (4.5 M)Bumgarner Cain (4.5 M) Hinshaw Joaquin S. Johnson Lincecum (9 M) J. Martinez Medders (.85 M) Pucetas Romo Runzler J. Sanchez (2.1 M) H. Sosa B. Wilson (4.4 M) Zito (18.5 M) CATCHERS
Molina (4.5 M)
PoseyWhiteside INFIELDERS
BurrissDeRosa (6 M) Downs Frandsen Gillaspie Huff (3 M) Ishikawa Pill Renteria (10 M) Rohlinger F. Sanchez (6 M) Sandoval Uribe (3.25 M) Velez OUTFIELDERS
BowkerFord Lewis Peguero Rowand (13.6 M) Schierholtz Torres OTHER
Bonds ($5 M deferred from '05 + interest)Gigantes
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It kind of reminds me of Shawon Dunston in 2002. Y'know ... everybody liked the guy but he just wasn't very productive or necessary. I kept hoping for a mid-season move where they would have replaced Sonny Jackson with Dunston.
Dusty: "You're at 3rd today, Shawon."
Shawon: "Base?"
Dusty: "Coach."
As for Roberts, is $6.5 million too much for a roving minor league instructor/recurring KNBR morning show guest?
Winn does seem to be the most trade-able. Which means they'll probably leave somebody at Fresno or give Roberts away to Pittsburgh or Kansas City. Where he'll hit .330 and steal 40 bags.
It kind of reminds me of Shawon Dunston in 2002. Y'know ... everybody liked the guy but he just wasn't very productive or necessary. I kept hoping for a mid-season move where they would have replaced Sonny Jackson with Dunston.
Dusty: "You're at 3rd today, Shawon."
Shawon: "Base?"
Dusty: "Coach."
As for Roberts, is $6.5 million too much for a roving minor league instructor/recurring KNBR morning show guest?
Winn does seem to be the most trade-able. Which means they'll probably leave somebody at Fresno or give Roberts away to Pittsburgh or Kansas City. Where he'll hit .330 and steal 40 bags.
Um, trade Randy Winn already?
I agree completely... If we can trade Winn we should. Nate can hit, has nothing to prove, and that allows Roberts to slide into the 4th OF spot. Roberts is a decent player, injuries aside. Winn is a FA after the year... might as well try to get a prospect or decent power bat for him. Maybe Winn for Nady, and drop Nady at 1st? I dunno... it's late and I am tired of working...
>>Nate can hit, has nothing to prove
I agree that Schierholtz should get some kind of chance to show his skills this year, but "nothing to prove"? Did you see what ESPN's Keith Law said about Schierholtz in a chat about his top 100 prospect list? A guy asked why Nate wasn't on the list, and Law wrote something like "call me when he learns to take a pitch."
What, there's something wrong with 5 walks in 198 career plate appearances? ... Oh.
As for Roberts, he continues the tradition of players whose skills (and careers) died while drawing a hefty paycheck from the Giants vault. I'm looking at you, Dunston (and Grissom, Finley, Benard, Alfonzo, Rueter, not one but 2 Davises from the same year-- Eric and Russ-- plus a whole lot more). (P.S. I'm being respectful and exempting Omar from the above list, especially since he might be signing a minor-league contract just to get a chance to play.)
I think it will depend on whether Roberts is taking a spot of a position player who would then have to be put through waivers, kind of like how they dropped Steve Kline to keep Threets (from what I recall) on the roster.
If not, then he's a high-priced PH/PR. Hopefully he will channel his energies then into coaching the younger players, particularly Velez and Burriss, but also Schierholtz, he steals a fair number of bases in the minors, double digits, so he could stand to learn a few tips from the pro.
Assuming the Giants are giving Schierholtz most of the looks in 2009, since he is out of options and they want to evaluate what he can do in 2010, that would make Roberts the perfect 5th OF, as we would keep him PH/PR, whereas if we kept Bowker up, then he would rot on the bench while we look at Nate, or worse, take away opportunities from Nate to show off what he can do.
Given Bowker's problems in the majors, having him play a full season in AAA isn't that bad an idea, 2007 could have been a flukey season. Hopefully he just concentrate on OF going forward.
I think OGC has the most reasonable solution so far. Unless he's taking someone else's roster spot, why not keep Roberts for now? Bowker can play every day in AAA, and there are no other 5th OF candidates to speak of. EME will compete for a spot at AAA, according to Bobby Evans in his Q&A with Bay Bridge Baseball, and Clay Timpner will probably be the Grizzlies' starting CF.
Assuming 12 pitchers, the rest of the roster would look like this:
C
Molina
Holm
IF
Sandoval
Ishi
Frandsen
Burriss
Renteria
Velez
OF
Lewis
Rowand
Winn
Schierholtz
Roberts
If the Giants sign another infielder (Aurilia, Crede, etc.), the question becomes whom to drop. Holm? Velez? Keep Velez as UI and emergency OF (yikes) and drop Roberts?
And yes, I know Josh Phelps is not on that list. He's no shoo-in to platoon at 1B, as many people assume. He's a 31-y.o. AAAA veteran. He needs to bowl everyone over in camp to make the team. I'd love it if Phelps were Carlos Pena Redux, rising like a phoenix after all these years, but I'm not betting my subprime mortgage on it.
Phelps doesn't have to be Pena, he just needs to mash lefties -- which he can btw -- because Ishikawa will be (or should be) platooned against them.
I agree that Josh Phelps has an uphill battle to make the 25 man roster. But to me the Giants will be better of if he does and they find a way to trade or choose to just DFA Roberts. Unfortunately I think signing Rich Aurila to backup 1B and 3B, Keeping Dave Roberts as the 5th outfielder, and sending both Josh Phelps and Emmanual Burriss to Fresno is the most likely opening day roster Brain and Bruce are planning on. The 3 Deep depth chart of this 13 position player roster I expect is:
C - Molina, Holm, Sandoval
1B - Ishikawa, Aurilia, Sandoval
2B - Frandsen, Velez, Aurilia
3B - Sandoval, Aurilia, Frandsen
SS - Renteria, Frandsen, Aurilia
LF - Lewis, Schierholtz, Roberts
CF - Rowand, Winn, Lewis
RF - Winn, Schierholtz, Velez
Personally I would prefer:
C - Molina, Holm, Sandoval
1B - Ishikawa, Phelps, Sandoval
2B - Frandsen, Burriss, Velez
3B - Sandoval, Frandsen, Burriss
SS - Renteria, Burriss, Frandsen
LF - Lewis, Schierholtz, Phelps
CF - Rowand, Winn, Lewis
RF - Winn, Schierholtz, Velez
A couple thoughts on this:
- I don't have a problem with Burriss playing SS every day in Fresno for a while.
- Velez should not go anywhere near an outfielder's glove.
While i am all in favor of releasing Roberts, the notion that Schierholtz is ready to supplant Winn is silly. Nate seems like a nice enough guy but he is a slow footed slap hitter. Juan Pierre without the steals..He never walks and his swing keeps him from elevating the ball. This is evidenced by his startling lack of homeruns..Matt Cain has more jacks.
Winn is the best player on the team. A team desperate for good players trading away your best player doesn't make much sense
winn gets you nothing but a roster spot and a mediocre prospect, keep one of the best RF in the league and his high batting percentage
release roberts, he's gonna cost us 6 mil (and a roster spot) regardless if he's on the team or not
Let Roberts compete for a spot in Spring. If he doesn't make it, he will be a good influence on young players and can help teach guys like Fred Lewis how to run the bases. Then we send him to San Jose, Fresno or Connecticut to "play" but just ask him to coach all of the youngsters. It sucks that he is getting paid so much, but what else can we do? No one wants him, and he will only block our young players like Shierholtz from getting an opportunity on the Big League Club.
The Giants should attempt to trade one of either Rowand or Winn, in that order of preference. Schierholtz starts in right and the one not traded starts in center. Roberts is the fourth outfielder and either Roberts or Bowker gets the nod if Schierholtz fails after having been given 1/3 of the season to establish himself, depending on Bowker's play in AAA. Roberts is still a valuable player off of the bench so he should not be released unless he is taking the roster spot of someone the Giants need to protect.
I don't really have anything useful to add. Just want to say that I'm a Dodgers fan, and I love Dave Roberts. One of my all-time favorite Dodgers.
YOu can have him back (and we will even pay $5M of his $6.5M salary) for any non 40 man roster player you are willing to give up.
Is firing Sabean and making Roberts GM off the table?
OK, then I vote to keep him. He is a serviceable, veteran bench player who can pinch hit, pinch run and is a decent defensive player. His $6.5 mil isn't going to be the difference between signing or not signing a more useful player. And maybe at midseason they might be able to get a decent prospect for him.
Good analysis of the roster ELM, you know Sabean will have to keep Roberts on the roster to save whatever face he has left...the list of wasted dollars over those years on useless players is naseauting...