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When the Giants Come to Town, It's Bye-Bye Baby | |
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When the Giants Come to Town, It's Bye-Bye Baby | |
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Giants 40-Man Roster
(w/2010 Salary, if known) PITCHERS
Affeldt (4.5 M)Bumgarner Cain (4.5 M) Hinshaw Joaquin S. Johnson Lincecum J. Martinez Medders (.85 M) Pucetas Romo Runzler J. Sanchez (2.1 M) H. Sosa B. Wilson (4.4 M) Zito (18.5 M) CATCHERS
Molina (4.5 M)
PoseyWhiteside INFIELDERS
BurrissDeRosa (6 M) Downs Frandsen Gillaspie Huff (3 M) Ishikawa Pill Renteria (10 M) Rohlinger F. Sanchez (6 M) Sandoval Uribe (3.25 M) Velez OUTFIELDERS
BowkerFord Lewis Peguero Rowand (13.6 M) Schierholtz Torres OTHER
Bonds ($5 M deferred from '05 + interest)Gigantes
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now is the time for Sabean to strike. Manny has been insulted. Offer him 2 years, around 45$M. He might take it just to spite the Dodgers. What would be better payback then taking the same deal from their arch rivals? And imagine, every Dodgers Giants game, Manny will come to play. DO IT SABES!
Then add Sheets also and we might be in contention this year.
SIGN MANNY!
Yeah, I agree with you regarding Manny never seeing a strike. If Bengie somehow reverted to that clutch 75-80 RBI guy, he might see some strikes. However, it could be Barry Bonds redux and IBB City.
I like the idea about adding bonuses based on the team's performance. I might take it a step further and add years instead of money. Manny wants a 6 year deal. I say sign him for a two year deal and then if we win the west add one year, if we win the pennant add two years and if we win the WS add four years. If the Giants win the WS then Manny gets his years and we get our Championship.
Ill gladly take the walks to Ramirez, last year we were 13th out of 16th in OBP so we could definantly use some help in getting on base.
Also say he hits 4th, and Winn and Sandoval are on 1st and 2nd to start the game, they will have to pitch to Manny or walk him and load the bases while raising the pitchers pitch count so its a win win for us.
And Manny hitting behind Pablo could turn him into the next big papi!
Jeff Fletcher has been maintaining that the Giants are not nor ever was serious in bidding. http://www.baybridgebaseball.com/2009/02/dont-get-excited-giants-fans.html
He has a source, "in the know", as they say, who says the Dodgers and Manny are just doing their dance and will come to a mutual agreement at some point.
He also notes that the Giants can't afford more than $12-15M, and thus can't sign Manny.
I disagree in that the Giants could defer money to the future in the contract if Manny agrees. That is how Boras got "bragging" rights with Pedro Alvarez, I think, he just got the Pirates to defer some bonus and pay interest, to make his contract bigger than Posey's. So they could pay $12-15M this year plus $5M next year and $5M the year after that.
I would prefer not to sign Manny, as attractive as that might be for the lineup. I would rather see what our current group can do together. I think they can be competitive without him, and competitive is what Neukom asked for 2009. With Manny, we then need to trade off either Rowand or Winn, plus take a big hit in defense in LF, and possibly RF too if Winn is replaced by Lewis.
I can't tell from the CBA whether team achievements are allowable trigger events for bonuses, and I don't recall one for any player. Is it possible to tie a bonus to a team accomplishment?
I think ELM is right about team accomplishments, I tried to float the idea before, but you can easily tie it to NLCS and World Series MVP achievements or performance bonuses, game played, home runs, etc.
But I dont see why deferring money will not be in Manny's interest. If he can get a three year deal with the Giants if they can defer $5 mill a year, we can spread that $15 million over 5 years after his contract is up. $3 mill a year plus interest is fairly reasonable. No one else is offering Manny more than a year...
>Is it possible to tie a bonus to a team accomplishment?
Now that you ask, I think it's against the rules. I dont' have time to check but I seem to remember Curt Schilling trying unsuccessfully for something similar with the Red Sox.
"could a team add anti-pouting clauses or incentives to prevent a Manny meltdown?"
NO. There will be pouting. There will be lollygaging. There will be Manny. I don't want to see it, .353 average or not. Yeah, that's stupid, but who's going to control this turkey? Bochy??? Ha!
Tell me again why we would sign Manny for 2 yrs at $20-25 mil per, when we could sign Bonds for one season and name our price - $5, 10, 12 mil???
First: I don't think the Giants would sign Manny for $20-25 M. His price would probably have to drop well below $20 M/year. See OGC's link above to Jeff Fletcher's blog post. I think Fletcher's argument makes sense.
Second: Bonds hasn't played since 2007, he's 44 years old, he recently had hip surgery, and he's about to go to trial. You need to give up the Bonds thing. It's over. He's not coming back. He's just not that into you.
Sorry, that was me. I didn't mean to post anonymously.
are you serious? Barry is facing prison time, you Barry Bonds nuts need to wake up...Manny destroyed NL pitching last year, the only thing Barry has destroyed is his reputation...
Nooooooo! Hopefully we can just UP the ANTE so the Dodgers have to spend $65-70 mil for 3 years. Would he make our team better? Of course. Would we have a legit #4 hitter? You bet. But we still need to build this team with pitching and D not with a liability in leftfield who will melt down at some point. We have gotten better and might surprise some folks but we're still rebuilding, let's stay the course. Hell we could have Abreu for probably $18 mil for two years and he had over 600 ABs again last year, 180 hits, 100 runs, 20 hrs, 100 rbis and hit .296. Oh yeah he added 22 stolen bases too. Manny had 183 hits, 102 runs and 2 stolen bases. I'd like us to get some O and shiver at the though of BENGEEEE hitting 4th but Manny is not the answer (I'm not a huge Abreu fan but he makes so much more sense).
BigO, are you really comparing Bobby Abreau to Manny Ramirez? Abreau might hit about 10-15 homers at ATT Park, Manny would certianly knock at least 20 at home. Look at Abreau's power numbers, they have been very questionable, plus he has had all the big bats around him in NY. People cannot question Manny's status as the most feared hitter in baseball...that is not Bobby Abreau...
A number of people have speculated that Manny will pout and not perform if the Giants get him on a short term contract. Think about this, though. On a two-year contract, half of the time he's on the Giants he's in a contract year with serious incentive to perform. He'll be 38 going on 39 negotiating his next contract - if he doesn't perform in the second year of his contract he's going to lose a lot of money. The older a player gets, the less important how they hit 3 years ago is, and the more important how they hit last year is.
As for the previous post, Abreu does not make sense for the Giants in the least bit, much less instead of Manny. Check out Chris over at Bay City Ball's blog, he has a good post on it - essentially Abreu is no better than Lewis. Manny is the only outfielder out there that'll be an upgrade for our team once both offense and defense are factored in.
Oh, and we can't just defer Manny's payments until later - everything I've read suggests the Giants expense deferred payments in the year of the contract, so essentially even if we deferred payments they'd be treated as 2009 expenses.
B, if we cant defer, then why are the Giants paying Bonds this year and last???? A contract can be structured any way the player and team wants it..Bonds deferred money most of the time at the end of his career and yes Bonds-fools, his career is over and he will be lucky not to be doing rpison time with all the evidence on his drug tests coming to light...if Giambi or other players spill the beans, Boonds is toast...
Peter, I don't have time to address your Bonds comments now - I'll get to them later. As for the deferred payments I have your answers. Obviously the Giants can and do defer payment. It has to do with how they go about accounting it. It's treated as an expense in the present year, so essentially the money is taken out in the present year rather than waiting until it's owed, and left in an account to earn interest. When the player is owed the money, they are paid from this account. In addition, players receive interest on deferred payments (and I believe generally a good interest rate, I know Bonds got a good rate) and often the club will be on the hook for a small amount of additional interest. The point is because the money is taken out in the present year the club is paying it in the present year rather than the year it's owed. The upside to this is the deferred money the Giants still owe Bond's has already been accounted for and does not affect the present budget.
Peter, as for the Bonds stuff...here goes. You're the type of Giants fan that makes me sick. Your uninformed opinions undermine informed Giants fan's efforts to defend Bonds, which we do with good reason. An informed Giants fan, even if they themselves don't support Bonds, shouldn't speak out against him because they know A.) how absurd the government's case against Bonds/Balco has been and B.) that the media's coverage of Bonds has mostly been a bunch of bullshit that borders on outright lying and anti-Bonds propaganda.
The "positive tests" are likely being thrown out in court because they either have no substantial link to Bonds, or are positive for THG, which was not a steroid, nor was it illegal. Giambi doesn't know anything about Bonds, and said this to the grand jury under oath when he was called. I could go on with more facts from the actual case that ESPN chooses not to report...but I'll just end with this. You're right. Bonds won't play again because Selig and his band of dickhead owners colluded the greatest player since Willie Mays out of the game, and us Giants fans were robbed of one last chance to witness greatness.
Lincecum's name as an anagram:http://morehardball.blogspot.com/2009/02/man-games-roar-more-anagrams.html
Sign Ramirez then trade Sanchez for Cantu and we have ourselves a real team