When the Giants Come to Town, It's Bye-Bye Baby

08.17.2009
Giants Now, Giants Later (Part 2)

Last week we discussed next year’s outlook for the pitching staff. Let’s dive right into the position players. I’ve listed in bold the active-roster players under contract or control for 2010. In italics are 40–man players (or other minor leaguers) with a decent shot to compete for a roster spot.

C
Whiteside
Holm
Posey

Catchers go first, because the biggest decision for next year hinges on Buster Posey. Will he be ready out of the gate? Will he need more time? What kind of help will he need? At the very least, I see the Giants signing a grizzled veteran backup, a Gregg Zaun type who can be a mentor but also hit a little so that if Posey is injured or completely flails, they won’t be stuck with Eli Whiteside or Steve Holm as the main main. Can Bengie Molina play that role? He probably doesn’t want to, and he probably won’t have to: someone out there will give him at least a one-year contract as a starter. The other option: Make Pablo Sandoval the fallback option if Posey can’t cut it immediately, and keep a Whitesidish fellow around so Pablo can also play 3B.

IF

Garko
Ishikawa
Renteria
F. Sanchez
Sandoval

Burriss
Downs
Frandsen
Guzman
Rohlinger

Here’s where the catcher situation has a ripple effect. If Sandoval starts a bunch of games behind the plate, the Giants will want a real bat to play at 3B when Pablo isn’t there. I don’t think Ryan Rohlinger is the answer, though I’ll be delighted if he is. Chone Figgins might be the answer, because when Pablo plays third, Figgins has the skills to play elsewhere. And he solves the Giants’ leadoff problem. He’s become one of the best. He’ll also be one of the most expensive free agents this winter and perhaps not the best use of the Giants’ dollars.

Across the diamond, I’m sure the Giants would love to upgrade the first-base bat. Nick Johnson would be nice if the magic 8–ball promised he would stay healthy, but beware the guarantee of multiple years in order to win a bidding war. I also won’t be surprised if they cut Renteria loose and eat his 2010 salary. Perhaps they see how he looks in camp, plus a month, but not much longer. Unless he makes a miraculous recovery, they couldn’t any do worse with a combo of Frandsen and Uribe.

Manny Burriss could be back in the mix in spring training, though after missing most of this year with a broken foot his chances of breaking camp with S.F. are slim. Definitely resign Uribe to another low-cost one-year deal, if possible. Jesus Guzman is a factor if Garko is traded or falls on his face — and remember, he’s entering arbitration and will start to get expensive — but I don’t think the Giants are convinced yet that Guzman can handle part-time duties at 1B with the glove or bat. His best role might be trade bait for an American League team that can use a DH/PH/1B/Lefty-masher type.

OF

Schierholtz
Rowand
Lewis
Velez
Torres
Bowker

The Giants will give Schierholtz every chance to win the RF job. He’s got the speed and the arm, but his bat might never play much better than Randy Winn’s, who until this year was good for 10–15 homers and a .340–350 OBP, which would be an improvement for Schierholtz. I’d love to see him develop 20–HR power and more patience; perhaps a year of full MLB service under his belt will spark that development. I like Andres Torres as a backup, and I think Fred Lewis will be odd man out. John Bowker needs to prove he’s not Todd Linden, and the Giants need to give him a chance to prove it. But Jason Bay in left field would be nice, too, and Bowker might have to prove himself again at AAA to start the year. Aaron Rowand will be the starting CF next year unless he loses a body part.

Here’s my mock Opening Day 2010 roster for position players. (My 12 pitchers are here.) It’s more my best guess at what will actually happen than my ideal roster.

Posey
Sandoval
Whiteside

Garko
Ishikawa
F. Sanchez
Renteria (on a short leash)
Uribe or Frandsen

Rowand
Schierholtz
ONE BIG BAT VIA FREE AGENCY OR TRADE
Torres
Velez



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16 Comments

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What, no Aurilia?

THINGS I BELIEVE:

It would be frankly criminal if the Giants did not get a big bat during the offseason.

The Giants will not get a big bat during the offseason.

I think your guesses are pretty good. They will not cut Renteria loose, he will be a back-up if nothing else, although I suspect, as do you that he will be the starter next year whether he deserves it or not.

I have a hard time believing that neither Bowker nor Lewis will be on the opening roster next season, even if neither of them have a starting position. I think that the Giants would wave goodbye to the 32 year old Torres before they let that happen, and Velez is a huge question mark. I think you need to pencil in either Bowker or Lewis. The organization seems to have soured on Lewis and I suspect he will be dealt in a trade in the offseason. Too bad for the Giants in my opinion.

As a 5th man I would rather have Torres than Velez because he is a better runner and a better defensive replacement.

Does anyone know if Velez or Bowker have options next year? That will probably impact the Giants decision.

Re. Renteria: I forgot that he's got a bone spur in his elbow that limits him at the plate, too. So the Giants are likely to wait til after surgery and give him the benefit of the doubt.

My only comment is in regards to Ishi. They have, evidently, largely given up on him. After a slow start, he was hitting near 300 from something like May 15 or so. I thought it made sense to get a RH hitting platoon partner, but, instead they got the (relatively) expensive Garko and announced he was going to be their main man, tho Ishi would get occasional starts. I don't expect they will do it, but my vote is to pencil in Ishi as the primary (3 out of 4 games) starter, give him a full year and see if his development continues.

I'm puzzled too that Garko's gotten so many starts against RHP. I thought Ishi would get some against soft-tossing RH, because he doesn't do well against good fastballs. Tonight's game vs. Livan was a prime spot, but I guess Bochy really wants to get Garko untracked. As I and others here have mentioned, Garko's had some bad luck, liners right at fielders and such, but he's not really driving the ball, either. He's punch and judy so far.

I'm leery of the MUST ADD ONE BIG BAT!!! philosophy. Getting a big bat is going to cost quite a bit, in dollars or players or both, and most top-notch hitters are corner outfielders, where we have young players who need to start.

Jason Bay, for instance, is a fine hitter but an awful outfielder. He's about to turn 31, so he's not going to get better. Overall, he's very unlikely to be more than 10 or 15 runs more valuable than Bowker or Schierholtz. Those 10 or 15 runs would help, but signing him for four or five years just continues the Winn/Roberts/Rowand/etc. cycle of trying to build your team around players in decline while burying those who might actually get better.

If we're going to make a big move (and I don't necessarily think we should), it should be for a shortstop (Sanchez for Hardy?) or a third baseman (Figgins or Beltre), with Pablo moving to first.

Begone, incrementalist! :-)

Hardy is interesting, and seeing how he just got demoted to AAA, he might be avaiable for less than J. Sanchez. I don't know if anyone would be happy if Beltre was the one big offensive addition this winter.

Before you shoot this idea down, have a look at the year Bobby Abreu is having. Not tons of HR, but a huge OBP (.404), extra-base power (that would increase at Mays Field), and -- check it out...25 stolen bases. He still has wheels. His D is subpar in RF, but move him to LF at Mays Field and he'd probably be OK. He signed for a pittance this year; could it happen again?

How about this:

3B Figgins
2B Sanchez
RF Schierholtz
C Sandoval
LF Abreu
1B Garko/Ishi
CF Rowand
SS Renteria (Uribe, Frandsen)
P Lincecum

Pablo needs someone behind him other than Nate, Garko, Rowand, Posey to get some pitches to hit. If the Garko/Ishi platoon isn't working in May or June, there are moves to be made. PErhaps by then Posey will bump Pablo to 1B, or the Giants could look for a legit 1B bat with J. Sanchez as trade bait.

I like the idea of going after JJ Hardy...the Tampa Bay backup SS Brignac is also very intriguing...

Abreu's similar to Bay as a player but would come cheaper, so that's good. But he would create the same problem: investing in a declining commodity at the expense of youngsters.

Schierholtz has a career major-league line of .303/.331/.438 -- not great, but he's 25 and plays a good right field. Meanwhile, a conservative MLE for Bowker's season at Fresno is .289/.376/.485. I'd have those two guys pencilled into my starting lineup, along with Rowand, Sanchez, and Sandoval, and try to improve at the other positions.

Beltre would be a cheap high-reward play; you'd be hoping to catch his post-injury, post-Safeco bounceback. Not a very exciting move but it could pay off big.

That "best guess" roster looks like a prescription for another year of anemic offense (subject to the "free agent to be named later").

My best guess re Ishii: on Sunday, after Bochy had reamed the team for not being selective at the plate, Ishikawa swung early 4 times resulting in 3 weak grounders (and a K). If I were Boche, I would've been royally pissed and would've planted Ishii's heinie back in the late inning defensive replacement spot for another week.

I am not sure about this analysis, not because Ishi didn't have a terrible game (he did), but because earlier in the season Ishi was chided for being too patient at the plate, and instructed to look for pitches to hit and let out a bit more shaft. Ishikawa took a lot of walks and called third strikes in April and May. Not since then. He has a great eye at the plate and I think he should be exercising it a bit better, but I doubt the management shares that perspective. With all of the free swingers on the Giants Ishikawa is the least of their concerns since he has the second highest total of pitches seen per plate appearance, trailing only Lewis (at least last time I checked).

You may be right - I may be projecting. But what I see is that he does not adjust to the way that he is being pitched. Earlier this season, it was fastball away for strike 1, then breaking balls down and in that he swung over. Sunday, it was sinkers away that he went after and beat into the ground. His stats aren't all that bad (8 HR 31 RBI in 240 ABs), but watching his plate appearances gives me the sense that he still hasn't "gotten it." I'm still rooting for him, though.

Yeah, you are right, he is still looking a little lost at times offensively. I am not sure if he will make it or not. Regardless, I am not real thrilled with how he has been handled this season. His playing time has been really inconsistent, and I think that makes it harder for a young guy to find a groove and succeed. I am rooting for him too. He has a slick glove and if he can even get to average offensively, it would be great for the Giants since he is only 25 and under control for 5 more years. He should be at peak production during this time frame if he can put it together. I hope that the Giants platoon him with Garko from here on out, which would give him 2/3 to 3/4 of the starts.

Lefty, I think there will not be a geat deal of cleanup hitters that will be free agents this year and be reasonably priced. I like the idea of Chone Figgins a great deal (Crawford may also be available) because I dont see Velez as an ideal, permanent leadoff type. But Figgins will command a lot of money...$40 mill for 4 years seems to be the minimum he will command.

I also do not think Posey is going to be ready to handle the catching duties yet. I see Molina getting a one year deal and continuing as the starter, hopefully, we will have Brenly coaching and using Molina where he should be hitting in the 6th or 7th spot.

Hardy may certainly be available at a very decent price. I dont think we need to give up Sanchez even for him. Martinez or Pucetas may be all it takes. Dont think they would be that high on Sadowski (how quickly we forget about him). Garko will probably get shopped...

So some wishful thinking:

1) Figgins - 3B/LF
2) Sanchez - 2B
3) Pablito - 1B/3B
4) Hardy - SS (let's debate the merits)
5) Schierholtz - RF
6) Rowand - CF
7) Molina - C
8) Velez - LF/2B

Bench: Torres, Lewis (still surprised he has not been traded), Whiteside, Renteria and Ishikawa. Uribe/Frandsen/Burriss/Bowker as alternatives if Renteria is cut (but I doubt that will happen) or Lewis traded.

I would even experiment with Velez hitting 9th. The pithcer will probably make a third out often hitting 8th. Then you have Velez, Figgins, Sanchez and then Pablito in a traditional cleanup spot.

Figgins can also get moved over to second in 2011 (Sanchez probably can go by then), then maybe a Guzman or Villalona is prime time ready as a cleanup option or then you could seek a basher for first or third or if Velez or Schierholtz dont pan out, then a power hitting corner outfielder. Posey also should be ready by 2011 then.

Nice post.

Re: C: I've been suggesting we get Jose Molina, from the Yankees. He's great defensively, check out fielding bible 2, and is the preferred catcher for two of the Yankees top pitchers in recent years, even with Posada around. He'll also be cheaper. But I like Zaun too, he's about as good defensively and as been a starter plus did the wait until top prospect is ready routine already with the Orioles, so he's with the program on that. I would also suggest Brad Ausmus, both because he's good defensively and because he is with the Dodgers this year, so he should be able to give us some good Intell on the Dodgers: how to get them out, etc.

Unless we are paying him a SF Bay-ful of money, why would Figgins want to come here with no set starting position?

Why not go with Ishikawa at 1B or in platoon with Garko? He has hit OK when starting and OK when sitting on the bench, waiting for the latest flavor to pass through (OK being around .800 OPS). He has hit .293/.359/.466/.825 with 8 HR in 174 AB since May 10th, after getting a kick in the butt with the threat of benching from Bochy on the 9th. I would rather see how he does with his great defense than sign a frequently injured player like Johnson.

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